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Saxophones Selmer Neck designed for Seated Playing

Philsaxophone

Member
Messages
41
Hi Guys

I have a new Selmer Super 80 Series II Tenor which I love but have a question about something I have just read on a USA web site

http://www.bestmusicco.com/test/product_page_saxes.html

If you scroll down to the Super 80 Series II Tenor it says

Neck Series II Bore--Angled for Seated Playing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What on earth does that mean especially as the Series III says MKVI angle and the Ref 36 and Ref 54 say that the neck is angled for Standing Playing

Is it just rubbish or is there something to it--if its true then whats the difference ???--does it affect the tone ????

Tx

Phil
 

spike

Old Indian
Messages
2,262
Hi Phil,
I've read something about this somewhere - I can't remember where or when, I may be talking rubbish but I think it has something to do with the position of the F# tone hole which is fairly high up on the body of these horns so that when playing seated and the neck is angled to the right, the octave key mechanism interferes with the F# mechanism or vice-versa. If I'm right then Henri has done something about it, and if I'm wrong then please file my post under "codswallop"
gruss - spike
 

Greg Strange

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,077
Update: here there is a good reason to find a different shop in Auckland Ca.
http://www.bestmusicco.com/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=58

And, by the way, am I supposed to change neck if I have to stand up for a solo?
Should that be Oakland?

Reminds me of a story a few years ago - an American guy was flying from L.A. (Los Angeles) to Oakland, California - boarded the plan, sat down in the plane, the plane took off.

He thought something was a bit wrong when a few hours later the pilot over the plane P.A. said the plane had just flown over Tahiti...plane's destination - Auckland, New Zealand.:))) True Story.

Honey I'll be a bit late for dinner tonight I'm flying over the South Pacific...:shocked:

Regards,

Greg S.
 
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Andante cantabile

Senior Member
Messages
695
At the risk of sounding gullible, I wouldn't dismiss this as being in the same class as the influence of the finish on the tone. The necks of my YTS-82z and the Phil Barone Vintage Tenor are slightly different. When I place them side by side on a flat surface, the cork end of the PB is about a quarter of an inch higher. As it happens, I always play seated, and the PB feels more comfortable. This is how it works for me. Others might not notice any difference. Whether the instrument being discussed by OP would let me feel the differnce is a moot point.
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,125
Should that be Oakland?

Reminds me of a story a few years ago - an American guy was flying from L.A. (Los Angeles) to Oakland, California - boarded the plan, sat down in the plane, the plane took off.

He thought something was a bit wrong when a few hours later the pilot over the plane P.A. said the plane had just flown over Tahiti...plane's destination - Auckland, New Zealand.:))) True Story.

Honey I'll be a bit late for dinner tonight I'm flying over the South Pacific...:shocked:

Regards,

Greg S.
Apologies: I come from a place where towns usually have two names (I swear): Fiume= Rijeka, San Giovanni in Bosco= Borst, Koper=Capodistria ... (And I chose places without funny accents, that I couldn't possibly type).

Often foreigners ask: " Which country are we in?"


At the risk of sounding gullible, I wouldn't dismiss this as being in the same class as the influence of the finish on the tone. The necks of my YTS-82z and the Phil Barone Vintage Tenor are slightly different. When I place them side by side on a flat surface, the cork end of the PB is about a quarter of an inch higher. As it happens, I always play seated, and the PB feels more comfortable. This is how it works for me. Others might not notice any difference. Whether the instrument being discussed by OP would let me feel the differnce is a moot point.
Since the finish affects the tone, I will ask to be dispensed from standing up for soloing. The neck's (crook's) angle is another issue that deserves a different thread: "why do necks with a more acute angle sound darker?"
 

jbtsax

Well-Known Member
Subscriber
Messages
8,013
My understanding of the usefulness in having a difference in neck angles on tenor has to do with the position of the instrument relative to the body. The alto can easily be played in the center both sitting and standing. The tenor on the other hand generally must be held to the side while playing seated. It too can be held in the center while playing in a standing position but each involves a different angle of the body of the sax---hence a different angle of the mouthpiece going into the mouth. Since straight into the mouth works for most players, the head must be tilted up or down to compensate for the direction the mouthpiece is coming from.

A tenor neck with less curve would allow a seated player playing off to the side with the bow of the sax back farther to play comfortably without having to tilt the head down very far. A tenor neck with more curve would allow a player who is standing to hold the sax in front with the bow pushed forward without having to tilt the head up excessively.
 

Andante cantabile

Senior Member
Messages
695
Since the finish affects the tone, I will ask to be dispensed from standing up for soloing. The neck's (crook's) angle is another issue that deserves a different thread: "why do necks with a more acute angle sound darker?"
This sounds like strongly-held personal convictions. Could you be more precise?
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,125
A tenor neck with less curve would allow a seated player playing off to the side with the bow of the sax back farther to play comfortably without having to tilt the head down very far. A tenor neck with more curve would allow a player who is standing to hold the sax in front with the bow pushed forward without having to tilt the head up excessively.
It makes sense, but who would buy a specific neck for sitting down or for standing up? Unless someone has specific health reasons (I knew a famous clarinet player that used modified barrels for that) the angle of the neck should be linked to other issues, like embochure (I am thinking of Jimmy Giuffre now)

This sounds like strongly-held personal convictions. Could you be more precise?
I should be more specific: "why curved neck sopranos sound better than straight neck ones, if they are both silver plated?"
(I strongly believe in almost nothing)
 

AndyWhiteford

Senior Member
Messages
454
"Angled for Seated Playing" ???
I smell marketing b.s.>:)

Selmer did revise the ref 54 tenor (and S80 SerIII tenor, i think ) neck angle to make them play/sound more like the Mk6, nothing to do with sitting/standing.
 

spike

Old Indian
Messages
2,262
May of course be a new right angle neck for the guy who plays round the corner . . .
 

Philsaxophone

Member
Messages
41
Thanks Guys

I must admit I just though it was hype--however from these posts there seems to be a view that the crook angle makes a difference to the sound--so the obvious question ----WHY ????
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
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so the obvious question ----WHY ????
Noooooooooooo!

But I will try to give my opinion anyway. It is just an opinion, no scientific evidence, no quotes from someone else's study.
1- A different crook design should have a different sound/response. Angle is only one aspect of design.
2- I prefer a right angle, simply because of the way I blow. Personal taste/shape/embochure. Someone else prefers an obtuse angle (clarinet embochure).

here is an extreme example

 
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AndyWhiteford

Senior Member
Messages
454
--so the obvious question ----WHY ????
perhaps Selmer have difficulty explaining to the masses why they have at least 4 main-line professional tenor models ??

I suspect that only 5% of us can PLAY the differences between those top-end models,
though 95% of us can post stuff on the forums about them ;-)
 

Nick Wyver

noisy
Subscriber
Messages
5,953
here is an extreme example

Blimey, you're not kidding.

Ok, the recording might not be the best quality, but what an awful noise.

Makes you wonder if clarinet players should be allowed to play saxophone.
 
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aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,125
Blimey, you're not kidding.

Ok, the recording might not be the best quality, but what an awful noise.

Makes you wonder if clarinet players should be allowed to play saxophone.
I love him. I would never play like him, but his music makes a lot of sense, whatever he does. "Three 1961" (ecm) is one of my favourite albums ever. And please let's not forget he wrote "4 brothers".
 

Andante cantabile

Senior Member
Messages
695
I should be more specific: "why curved neck sopranos sound better than straight neck ones, if they are both silver plated?"
(I strongly believe in almost nothing)
Well, that clears that one up, then.

I looked at the Selmer claim. As far as I can see, it says nothing about sound. But it suggests that people playing sitting down might find that particular neck more convenient. This may be true for some, but not for others.

Now we know that, other things being equal, the material doesn't influence the sound. A saxophone made of sterling silver would sound just as sweet as one made of Sheffield steel if everything were fungible. However, whether the shape of the neck makes any difference in the sound is beyond my knowledge of things and even my powers of assertion.
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,125
Now we know that, other things being equal, the material doesn't influence the sound. A saxophone made of sterling silver would sound just as sweet as one made of Sheffield steel if everything were fungible.
I love threads like this.
 
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