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Saxophones Saxello why it disappears

Late to this thread, but I'm picking up on the comment early on in this thread about how important it is to get the overhaul/ set up just right on these vintage instruments.

100% yes, and it's not just the proper seating of pads and felt/ cork adjustments, that with antique mechanisms (notably upper stack) is finickity: it's correct venting/ key heights as well for each stack and bell keys, that in my limited experience (working on 6 vintage horns) are absolutely critical compared to modern sopranos. A millimetre can change the voice and pitch.

I bet set up accounts for 75% of people's perception of good/ bad horn examples, with manufacturing variation maybe far less of a culprit than folk assume.

I have two remaining exceptional examples of vintage horns, both gold plated, a Buescher Bb Tipped Bell and a Conn straight Bb. Neither were really singing after initially getting set up/ overrhauled, nor tuned evenly without more than quite a bit of mindful adjustment. It took me many weeks of babying to get them both just right, and now they play very much in tune and truly vibrate. Great, great horns, easily underestimated until the set up became truly locked in, which took hours and hours over extended periods of time to get right.
100% correct! It usually takes me a few days to do an exact fine tuning of any sop and without that, any verdict on intonation or even tone is just unfounded rambling. I am always curious about those tipped bell Bueschers, they are high on my wish list if I ever experience any windfall.
 
Maybe but I wasn’t going to buy it speculatively, especially given how far away from nice intonation it was when I played it.
The upper stack regulation is ingenious but totally counterintuitive.

But, at least, the piano appears to be in tune :) The upper register palm keys are just a a tad flat in that recording but I tried to avoid any scooping and just play the notes as I could hit them (and it was a very quick and dirty take on my last sop reed - with a little chip in one corner, waiting for the mail with the replacement)

 
100% correct! It usually takes me a few days to do an exact fine tuning of any sop and without that, any verdict on intonation or even tone is just unfounded rambling. I am always curious about those tipped bell Bueschers, they are high on my wish list if I ever experience any windfall.
The Tipped Bell is fabulous but arguably no more fabulous than the Conn (the latter in a comparatively warmer, slightly more spread and resonant vein) and which of course was less expensive. I couldn’t part with either of them.

A good friend who is a multi-instrumentalist and composer based in New York tells me there’s nothing like a King Saxello, likening it to a human voice. He’d encouraged me to buy a gold plated one in near mint condition from the same source as the Tipped Bell. I couldn’t face another process to set up a 3rd vintage horn so passed on it.
 
The Tipped Bell is fabulous but arguably no more fabulous than the Conn (the latter in a comparatively warmer, slightly more spread and resonant vein) and which of course was less expensive. I couldn’t part with either of them.

A good friend who is a multi-instrumentalist and composer based in New York tells me there’s nothing like a King Saxello, likening it to a human voice. He’d encouraged me to buy a gold plated one in near mint condition from the same source as the Tipped Bell. I couldn’t face another process to set up a 3rd vintage horn so passed on it.
Check post #76 in this thread, and yes, I agree with your friend. The saxello recording was before the complete overhaul and post #6 for after the overhaul (with a little bit of EQ added and a better mic).
 
Check post #76 in this thread, and yes, I agree with your friend. The saxello recording was before the complete overhaul and post #6 for after the overhaul (with a little bit of EQ added and a better mic).
Saxello has very strange sound, but very Nice sound, it's hot, close sound, good intonation, but it's very good, i'am fans about this sax. '

The tipped bells is very good, but if saxello is very cool and so different, tipp bells is for me more classics, it' s more like soprano straight, the curving is just little.

I don't know or i'am sceptisims by the tipp bells, it's really different sound, because the structural of instrument has not plenty difference with soprano straight. For me that I see, it's just an ask about look not about sound.

After it's complicated to judge this instrument only by pictures too, i can say big mistake too.
 
100% correct! It usually takes me a few days to do an exact fine tuning of any sop and without that, any verdict on intonation or even tone is just unfounded rambling. I am always curious about those tipped bell Bueschers, they are high on my wish list if I ever experience any windfall.
I compared my late straight Buescher TT LP-122 model to a Buescher TT soprano tip bell. The upper part is curved and the bell is not straight. Otherwise it was the same horn. I guess it was a comfort thing and and a result of "look at us, we can also do rare saxes".
View: https://youtu.be/1vRuNuUw9uA?si=XJpzVLt7pW1wc2p4
 
Who played on saxello, they're on great jazz man but i don't remember who
Roland Kirk played a "Saxello". Otherwise I don't know.

Willis Jackson (Jazz and R&B sax player) sold his "Gator Horn" in the 80's. Gator Horn???? Willis Jackson was sometimes playing a Conn-O-Sax in F and to low A on his shows. He called the gators with his long sax that nearly reached to the floor. A guy that also lived in upper Manhattan in the 80's bought Jackson's gator horn and expanded his collection of Conn-O-Saxes from one to two.
 
Roland Kirk played a "Saxello". Otherwise I don't know.

Willis Jackson (Jazz and R&B sax player) sold his "Gator Horn" in the 80's. Gator Horn???? Willis Jackson was sometimes playing a Conn-O-Sax in F and to low A on his shows. He called the gators with his long sax that nearly reached to the floor. A guy that also lived in upper Manhattan in the 80's bought Jackson's gator horn and expanded his collection of Conn-O-Saxes from one to two.
Roland kirk, that
 
Roland kirk, that
Yes. I think so. But now had a look at some YT videos and internet picture as well. He was on the other tip bell sopranos on some videos. Some pictures clearly shows he was on a King "Saxello" with a bigger bell flare. The low C and C# on one side and low B and Bb (same size , rather small keys). I wonder why they put a bigger flare on the sax?
 
I was was not clear about "King Saxello" design with two G# tone holes and Low C tone holes. I had to go back to old magazines. It's Paul Cohen I quote. I'm not saying that is a bad designs I'm just interested to know how they works.

"Another unique design was the addition of two G# tone holes. By adding an extra G# opening, all the note from open C# down the body li open. According to a 1926 catalogue, "this really improves the tone quality and makes the instrument in perfect tune. The muted A is unknown to the "King". This feature permits the playing of some arpeggiated passages between both hand with a simplified fingering."

"Another set of unusual tone hole placements was placed on the "Saxello" and some of the straight sopranos. The low C opening, on almost all instruments comprised of a single large tone hole (proportional to bore size) was replaced by two smaller tone holes in vertical line with each other. They are controlled by the same low C key and are not mechanically independent. It's not clear what advantage N.H. White sought by this design., as it was not advertised and seems to be at variance with several fundamental acoustic principles of wind construction."
 
The King didn't play a King Saxello. King Curtis played a perfect curved Bb soprano. If it was made by Courtier, Martin, Holton ..... I don't know. He played a straight Selmer as well.
Well, to be honest, I was fooled by the picture below.

 
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy83X624pQU



Not sure if he has a King Saxello but he has most of everything else, but still worth a listen to Doug Webb

After listening to this again there is a Saxello in there.

I didn't spot the Saxello in the video itself, but at the end of the video he helpfully has pictures and names of all of the many, many instruments played. The saxophones start at about 10:50 into the YouTube video and the Saxello is shown at about 11:08.

As well as the Saxello, he includes Manzello, Stritch and straight alto, tenor and baritone.

I now realise just how incomplete my collection is as well as how inadequate my playing is.

Rhys
 
I didn't spot the Saxello in the video itself, but at the end of the video he helpfully has pictures and names of all of the many, many instruments played. The saxophones start at about 10:50 into the YouTube video and the Saxello is shown at about 11:08.

As well as the Saxello, he includes Manzello, Stritch and straight alto, tenor and baritone.

I now realise just how incomplete my collection is as well as how inadequate my playing is.

Rhys
Yeah I thought the same, great collection and great playing.

The King Saxello is in the video at 6:47 but only for a few seconds.
 
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Well, to be honest, I was fooled by the picture below.

It's not so easy to see if it was a King Saxello or a perfect curved. There was a YT clip where king Curtis played his prefect curved.
 
I was was not clear about "King Saxello" design with two G# tone holes and Low C tone holes. I had to go back to old magazines. It's Paul Cohen I quote. I'm not saying that is a bad designs I'm just interested to know how they works.

"Another unique design was the addition of two G# tone holes. By adding an extra G# opening, all the note from open C# down the body li open. According to a 1926 catalogue, "this really improves the tone quality and makes the instrument in perfect tune. The muted A is unknown to the "King". This feature permits the playing of some arpeggiated passages between both hand with a simplified fingering."


"Another set of unusual tone hole placements was placed on the "Saxello" and some of the straight sopranos. The low C opening, on almost all instruments comprised of a single large tone hole (proportional to bore size) was replaced by two smaller tone holes in vertical line with each other. They are controlled by the same low C key and are not mechanically independent. It's not clear what advantage N.H. White sought by this design., as it was not advertised and seems to be at variance with several fundamental acoustic principles of wind construction."
Just the way @turf3 and I discussed it earlier in this thread.
 
He plays both the saxello and the manzello in the video. The saxello briefly flashes in at 6:52 (top row), the manzello is around 7:08

Doug_Webb_Saxello.jpg
 

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