Saxophones Sax.co.uk stops selling Bauhaus Walstein - Quality issues

[DavidUK]

:shocked:

I spoke to a chap at Sax.co.uk yesterday who told me they had stopped selling BW saxes due to a fall in quality.
Is this the beginning of the end for BW?

Here's a 10 month old AS-YD I'd seen, although the chap at Sax.co.uk said their decision wasn't due to any premature tarnishing issues....

 

[Fraser Jarvis]

Interesting, but I wonder if the quality issues are restricted to the lower end Chinese BW's ? as the better one's, the M2 for example is made in Taiwan.

 

[MLoosemore]

Just to provide balance in the discussion, my BW Bronze is 12 months old now and no signs of any tarnishing or 'touch wood' other issues...

 

[DavidUK]

Just to provide balance in the discussion, my BW Bronze is 12 months old now and no signs of any tarnishing or 'touch wood' other issues...

Like I said, Sax.co.uk said it wasn't a tarnishing issue. What it was ​I don't know. Perhaps I should have asked!

 

[jonf]

I heard from a member of staff at sax.co.uk about six months ago that they were getting really hacked off with the number of substandard horns which were needing to be returned or have remedial work done, so I'm not surprised to hear this.

 

[aldevis]

I have seen tarnishing on new Selmers and Buffet Prestige too, in the past.
Are we sure that BW's margin is simply not good enough for sax.co.uk? After all they are in the position of choosing their manufacturers of student/intermediate models.

 

[Saxdiva]

I heard from sax.co.uk and from Dick Hamer at South Wales Woodwind that there have been significant issues with manufacturing and warranty on horns and poor response from BW making dealing with them a real pain. Suppliers of them seem to be fewer in number than in the past.

I guess sax.co.uk are likely to be more worried about their reputation than margins.

 

[ProfJames]

It sounds a real shame. BW appear to have an excellent reputation on the forum and these sort of activities will do nothing to help their sales. Have to agree with Saxdiva that any reputable dealer/oylet cannot afford to lose it's own reputation and also trying to cope with serial returns issues.

 

[DavidUK]

I have seen tarnishing on new Selmers and Buffet Prestige too, in the past.
Are we sure that BW's margin is simply not good enough for sax.co.uk? After all they are in the position of choosing their manufacturers of student/intermediate models.

The chap I spoke to said "quality issues" not price, and he didn't seem to be hiding a price issue.

 

[jonf]

Agreed, and the member of staff I spoke to was referring to prioblems before the saxes got to the customer.

 

[DavidUK]

I have to say my BW tenor (now sold) without any model lettering on the bell was immaculate when I bought it 2nd hand. It must have been a good few years old. Maybe the older horns will be more sought after if the newer ones have suffered?

I think they have reached their price point after a cheap start as "Walstein" saxes, and making more profit can also be done by cutting corners, both in materials and labour time/costs in manufacturing and quality control.

 

[aldevis]

I have to say my BW tenor (now sold) without any model lettering on the bell was immaculate when I bought it 2nd hand. It must have been a good few years old. Maybe the older horns will be more sought after if the newer ones have suffered?

I think they have reached their price point after a cheap start as "Walstein" saxes, and making more profit can also be done by cutting corners, both in materials and labour time/costs in manufacturing and quality control.

I often suspect that some horns are sold almost underpriced to enter the market. At the same time QC is stricter. They the start cutting costs and increasing prices.

 

[Ads]

The one I had , had Bauhaus Walstein on it, the model number the lot and came in the latest case style ( I think it had the Italian pads too) and it was bang on in finish and action so there`s no way you can judge this by what`s on the bell, the case etc.

 

[jonf]

I often suspect that some horns are sold almost underpriced to enter the market. At the same time QC is stricter. They the start cutting costs and increasing prices.

I'm sure you're right, if you look at the cost of a BW sop when launched compared to now.

Also, I don't think there'll ever be a distinct market for certain aged BW saxes - although they're undoubtedly good value, in the final analysis they're still just inexpensive saxes.

 

[Guenne]

Also, I don't think there'll ever be a distinct market for certain aged BW saxes - although they're undoubtedly good value, in the final analysis they're still just inexpensive saxes.

Hi,

that is true for all Taiwanese horns.
Just look at the price of used Cannonballs, Mauriats.
I own a Yanagisawa 992 Tenor and Alto, and a M2DL Tenor and Alto.
I bought the Bauhaus saxes at Cantabilemusic, first the Alto, then the Tenor.
The Tenor had a very minor paint defect. Bauhaus almost insisted in sending the horn back.
I have to say that the M2Dls feel rock solid, never had a Taiwanese horn like this, and I know some.

Cheers,
Guenne

 

[aldevis]

that is true for all Taiwanese horns

Not really: There are at least two makers that can produce "inexpensive" professional level horns.
I can choose to show myself in professional big bands with a 5 digit MkVI or my Taiwanese endorsee. I chose the one that does a better job, and am being very tough on it in the last year.

The student line that I bought some years ago did a good job and still have a use for R&R noisy gig or school lessons.

 

[Guenne]

Hi,

sorry for being unclear.
What I meant was that (I am translating from German) you are "married" to a Taiwanese horn, once you leave the shop.
You're by far not getting back what you paid for when you try to sell the horn.
This of course says nothing about their quality.

Cheers,
Guenne

 

[Ads]

I see what you mean - for instance a TJ Signature RAW maybe a fantastic horn but it`s still a Taiwanese Trevor James and won`t keep its price like a Selmer, Yam or Yani or even an SX90 with dodgy toneholes, people are, and always will be attracted to Labels either because they`re Icons (like Selmer Paris & Keilwerth) or safe (Like Yam and Yani) regardless of merits ..... the Sheppard is a different matter entirely of course only the raw bits were made over there and Andy's name carries a lot of weight ..

Of course the disclaimer again - this has no bearing on the quality or playablity of the horn which really should come first regardless .

 

[jazzdoh]

I see what you mean - for instance a TJ Signature RAW maybe a fantastic horn but it`s still a Taiwanese Trevor James and won`t keep its price like a Selmer, Yam or Yani or even an SX90 with dodgy toneholes, people are, and always will be attracted to Labels either because they`re Icons (like Selmer Paris & Keilwerth) or safe (Like Yam and Yani) regardless of merits ..... the Sheppard is a different matter entirely of course only the raw bits were made over there and Andy's name carries a lot of weight ..

Of course the disclaimer again - this has no bearing on the quality or playablity of the horn which really should come first regardless .

Don't think this is only Taiwanese horns,take Yamaha 62 alto they are best part of £2000 but you can see them secondhand from £800-£1100,Selmer series II new £3500,secondhand £1500,for me Yani's hold their price better than most.
I can only speak for me i have a RAW alto cost me £1400 new i bet i won't lose as much on it as i would if it was a Selmer or Yamaha.

 

[Forensicman101]

I bought a BW from Dick Hamer a year and a half ago. The finish is still as good as it was when I bought it, but there are some issues with the quality of the keywork alignment at the top end. The straight neck is OK, but the octave key on the curved neck appears to be misaligned, resulting in unreliability just when you don't want it in a gig. Result: I played the straight neck. To be fair on BW they offered to take a look at the sax for me, but I've now got myself a 2nd hand System 74 soprano and am keeping the BW as a backup as I couldn't in all conscience sell it as it is.