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Sam Dillon

just saxes

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I'm not really here right now, because I'm past the 1st glass of wine on a 2-3 glass eve.

I was just listening at Vincent Herring's recording of "Hard Times" (a fave composition) on YouTube, and this tenor player comes on and I'm like, "WHO THE **** ARE YOU???" and after some searching I figure out it's a young player that somehow I encountered on Instagram, when opening my Instagram, but wasn't really aware of til now.

Some may enjoy. Quite a lot.

Here's the Vincent Herring clip:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbYs25nBaCE


Here's the first Sam Dillon clip I hit, that motivated me to come over here, log on and make this thread:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m66WmOH2bYk


And of course, because it would be remiss not to link it, here's the original DFN recording, which every one on earth should have seared into their brains for their own good at the time of passing from this earth:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjj9Dgd6vRU
 

Adrian63

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Nice choices Sir : well two out of three ain't bad...couldn't listen to Mr Dillon ; his tuning is way off it grates
But thanks all the same :thumb:
 

just saxes

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I'll have to listen again, to try and understand. Not my first encounter with a response like yours. I have a friend, somewhat well known professional player, very good player, who once told me he couldn't stand some of Coltrane's recordings because to him Coltrane is so out of tune on them. Sop, I could understand, but he meant on tenor. It stunned me when he said that. This was 20 years ago, that he said it, and it pops right up in my mind often. That's how struck I was, and it created sort of a topical place in my brain, related.

Wonder if you despise Jackie McLean as well? I mean, he's into the realm of playing basically Indian music in quarter tones, maybe on purpose, maybe not, but a quarter tone = way out of tune. Sometimes I can take it, some recordings I can't. I kind of think maybe on some recordings he was just too wasted to play more in tune, because when he's in the pocket, and playing in tune, he's the bomb.

What stuck out to me, when I first heard Dillon take the solo after Steve Turre on the Herring album, is that he was clearly very able and that I didn't recognize his voice.

When I looked up the discography, that other clip is the first one I hit after ID'ing the solo as Sam Dillon. His expressiveness and sincerity is what stuck out to me, immediately. I'll have to listen again with the intonation question in mind.
 

just saxes

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p.s. I love how Herring approaches the DFN recording. I feel like he's loved the original recording for a long time, and he makes it his own -- yet at the same time with DFN in there, the whole time -- so naturally and casually, without trying at all to be fancy. And VH is capable of being phenomenally fancy (example: that album of his when he was younger AMERICAN EXPERIENCE).
 

JRG

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Sam is the REAL deal. In regards to intonation, I honestly have no quips with his. Is it perfect? No, but I honestly challenge anyone to play perfectly in tune, every note, every time they play. Not gonna happen. I know my intonation sure as hell isn't perfect, but as far as I'm concerned, there are far bigger fish to fry.
What blows me away about Sam is his sound, intensity, chops/technique and it's quite obvious he's spent a lot of time working on all those things. I love his playing and I'm glad you found him!
 

brianr

 
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Re Sam Dillon. 2nd clip.

There is a lot I like.
He has a great sound. His time feel and articulation are really good. I didn’t hear any intonation issues.

I liked how he played the tune........BUT..........

His improv bored me as soon as he started the patternistic stuff.
Just way too mechanical and “ textbook” for me.

Played great,with perfect semiquavers, in time, and “correct” harmony.

just overdone/used, and not how I want to hear someone play.
I prefer melody, which he did from time to time, but his default is boring!!!!
 

Adrian63

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@just saxes : good morning sir....
Just to let you know I don't " despise " ( your words ) anybody ; most certainly not Jackie McLean nor Coltrane...I merely said I thought it was out of tune and didn't much care for it . As to dealing with " responses like mine " ; with all respect if you don't like my posts then simply don't read them.
Have a good day
 

Adrian63

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A quarter tone is not out of tune ; it is a quarter tone and an integral part of some ethnic music..
 

just saxes

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You seem to be trolling a bit much, Adrian63. It's hard to me to tell if you know you're doing it (maybe you're a teenager, and your traps are unconscious? I am assuming neither, til corrected). Nobody accused you of hating McLean or Coltrane -- that's nonsense based trolling at a glance. You said you can't stand Dillon, I asked if you also couldn't stand (despised) McLean. Nobody said they didn't like your post (I said the opposite -- I was interested in what you said, which should be obvious). If you don't intend to annoy, maybe you should try to avoid accusing others of accusing you of things when nothing of the kind has happened. If you post like that to me one more time, you'll get your wish and be blocked. You'll be the one missing out, not me. I'm here to share and be of use, because I enjoy both of those. If I don't feel like I can do that with you, then yeah: I will put you on ignore to spare myself more unsolicited antagonism. Because I don't enjoy that.
 
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just saxes

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Re Sam Dillon. 2nd clip.

There is a lot I like.
He has a great sound. His time feel and articulation are really good. I didn’t hear any intonation issues.

I liked how he played the tune........BUT..........

His improv bored me as soon as he started the patternistic stuff.
Just way too mechanical and “ textbook” for me.

Played great,with perfect semiquavers, in time, and “correct” harmony.

just overdone/used, and not how I want to hear someone play.
I prefer melody, which he did from time to time, but his default is boring!!!!

If I understand you (patterns = more based on scale patterns, less on a bag of "licks" and idioms), I can relate but am into both. I basically have no patterns in my own bag, only licks and whatever comes out of my brain, which is all idioms, no scales, because I have been lazy my whole saxophone life (mainly because of a lack of time and commitment to practicing for longer than it takes to do ear training). But, because I am a zero on the "pattern-ability" scale I'm never bored by people who are less "lick" and idiom heavy.

I would say, based on proximity to a great great R&B player who could fake more technical patterns, but played almost solely out of a bag of his own idioms (he thought in the numbers, could do that with anybody, was classically/legit trained) but if he played a pattern it was very personalized, to the point of becoming more a "lick" or idiom, so it always sounded like he was playing from a giant lego-set of personal idioms, to the point where most of his performances, once you were very familiar with his playing, read as a lot less inspired than they seemed to people who didn't know his playing as well.

The best performance of his I ever saw was when he played a NYE gig with Andre Williams (the bawdy Detroit Andre Williams) where Williams hired a punk rock New Orleans band (these guys could play blues, but their main gigs were as a punk rock band) to back him ahead of his arrival. They played all Williams's songs in guitar keys, so my friend was forced to play out of his familiar and habituated bag, and that was the best performance of his I ever heard/saw (his best normal gig was with the Fats Domino band).

I think that's probably a longwinded way of saying I can relate (but I may be misunderstanding).

Dillon's playing is so unfamiliar to me, I guess any patternistic things that would stick out to me would be interesting in terms of how they fit into his more personal quest, because definitely there is a very personal quest. I guess if I understood the whole better, from go, the patternistic elements would be less interesting to me, personally.
 
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Zugzwang

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I try to bite my lip and not react quickly in the Cafe, because I’m both opinionated and short tempered and you can’t give someone a hug/buy them a pint here (or anywhere, now)
But just to clarify: it was your own friend @just saxes , not @Adrian63 whom you said “couldn’t stand” John Coltrane, then you strengthened it to “despised” as you went forward. Hopefully you two have privately made up and all this is unnecessary.
 

Adrian63

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Good Morning ;
I'm gonna wind this up and won't be revisiting this thread. I'm totally bemused as to where this has gone . Why you are so concerned as to my saying I thought it was out of tune I don't know. At no point did I say I " couldn't stand him "...
Other than coming here and an odd Twitter post I don't do social media and though obviously I have heard the term " trolling " I am not exactly sure what it means ; nor am I particularly interested .
Yeah it comes down to that : I posted three lines complimenting you on your choices but saying I couldn't get into the second as again I thought his tuning was off .
This really is so trivial I'm bored already but wanted to finish this . The yawn you didn't understand signified my boredom . NOT with you per say .
It matters not but I'm not a teenager and have played for twenty five years maybe more . I would apologise but for what ?
If you want to block me that would not be a good thing but entirely up to you man ; whatever you wish....
Have a good day...
 

JRG

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Regardless of all the "he said/he said" stuff, there's NO doubt that Sam is one of the best young (I think he's in his early 30's or so) tenor players on the jazz scene today. We all have our individual tastes and that's fine but again, he's one of the best young guys carrying on the post-Coltrane style of playing today. Prove me wrong.
 

Hankenstine

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Regardless of all the "he said/he said" stuff, there's NO doubt that Sam is one of the best young (I think he's in his early 30's or so) tenor players on the jazz scene today. We all have our individual tastes and that's fine but again, he's one of the best young guys carrying on the post-Coltrane style of playing today. Prove me wrong.

Yes! What an incredible player.
 

6441

 
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I immediately liked the third video, and I understand now that I'm listening to the most noble member of the saxophone family, the alto, I didn't know Fathead played it. Must look into more of that!
 

just saxes

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Regardless of all the "he said/he said" stuff, there's NO doubt that Sam is one of the best young (I think he's in his early 30's or so) tenor players on the jazz scene today. We all have our individual tastes and that's fine but again, he's one of the best young guys carrying on the post-Coltrane style of playing today. Prove me wrong.

I mean, he's on the first recording as a mature Vincent Herring's album taking the solo after Steve Turre. That colors my reaction, personally (unconsciously, I expect everybody on that album to play their a-- off, so when a voice that I don't recognize comes up I expect & am probably predisposed to be impressed), but they are also better arbiters of who can play and who can't than most of us (any of us, probably, but "most" to be fair), certainly than me.
 

just saxes

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FTR, I really was interested in the critique above -- that is me wanting to understand better, while not forseeing possible offense.

Randulo - I encounted DFN via more alto-heavy Ray Charles recordings and "Hard Times" first. Plus...IMO he is more impressive and fully-blown on alto (I feel like his tone is fuller, more "on," on alto, though I love some of his tenor recording, too, e.g. RC's "Ain't Misbehavin"-- good Lord, so sweet how he brings that in). On tenor it sounds to me like his tone is not as strong (for himself) as on alto, meaning it sounds to me like he put a lot more time in on alto. Which could be completely wrong.

The player I mentioned above re "patterns" filled DFN's chair for a spell, by the way, when DFN was incarcerated. He abandoned it because he thought he had bigger fish to fry, lol.

Hm. I just tried to look for some RC recordings with DFN from earlier on, and for the life of me (maybe I need more coffee, or to wake up more) I can't tell without picking up a horn right now if the solo here is alto or tenor, but despite different contexts & textures this sounds like a more fully developed tone to me than on "Ain't Misbehavin":

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2FaRZYqDC8

Is that even DFN? I'll have to try to figure it out later.

I can't fully explain it right now (because I don't know other than the breathiness what all features of his playing create this impression for me). On "Ain't Misbehavin" DFN sounds to me more like a really great alto player playing some tenor (that I love, it's on all my ear-training practice lists at the moment).
 
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