Running an Ensemble

[Tenor Viol]

I will write some more items for the Playing in an Ensemble thread in due course, but I wanted to talk about something loosely related to the question of playing in groups, but this is about how such groups are organised...

Once a group get beyond about 15 it becomes nearly impossible to operate on an informal basis as it takes too much effort. Around that point you have to become slightly more formally organised. In UK law, the likeliest option is you become an 'unincorporated society'. All this means is that you have some sort of written governance document (constitution) and a committee which runs the organisation. If your turnover exceeds £5k p.a. then you can become a registered charity if you so wish. Larger groups may opt either for becoming a Company Limited by Guarantee, or a Charitable Incorporated Organisaiton (CIO). Both of these have the advantage that they remove personal financial liability from the committee/trustees, although CIOs have only been enabled since about 2013, even though they were introduced by the Charities Act in 2009 (ish).

I've been invovled with organisations for 40 years - I started young... There are some mistakes which some organisations make and which are entirely avoidable. Here are a few:

• Work falls on a small group. This is a very common mistake. Some organisations think that officers such as secretaries or chairmen are there to be plugged in, used, and thrown away. They then wonder why they struggle to fill posts. Break roles up into bite sized pieces and spread the workload. An elected officer may have to be accountable, but does not necessarily have to do everything.
• Slow or no turnover of people. It is easy to have 'Fred' as secretary for 25 years because 'He's always done it'. This is a stupid move. People lose interest and enthusiasm over time. Key roles should rotate regularly. In the best organisations, key posts such as chairman, secretary and treasurer are limited ot serving a maximum period (e.g. 3 years) without a break. This keeps the organisation fresh and gets people into the mindset of knowing that if they volunteer, they are not lumbered for 10 years. The other reason for this policy is eventually Fred moves on and suddenly no one in the organisaiton knows how that role works.
• Membership. This is a corker and one that many organisations get badly wrong. You have to be open and welcoming. You must have a policy of welcoming new members and making sure that people talk to them and get them involved. It is very easy for an organisation to appear 'closed' or cliquey to newcomers. It is very hard for most groups to recruit new members. To find people then lose them is stupid.

I've been prompted to write these thoughts due to some recent experiences. I joined an orchestra last September (I was invited by the MD and by the chairman to join, both of whom I know from elsewhere). This is a small group (c.25). They have a new MD and he replaced one who had been in place for nealry 30 years. That old MD apparently did almost everything so no one has a clue how to run things. So that's problem #1.

Problem #2 is the attitude to new members. I think there is an attitude problem as some seem to be rather 'sniffy' about mere mortal amateurs (a number are music teachers and therefore regard themselves as pro or semi-pro). My own department I am #3. The other two hardly talk to me, except to bark criticism at me (publicly). Now I'm not a shrinking violet, but this just makes me feel unwanted. The other two seem to have the interpersonal skills of a pair of porcupines.

To get to rehearsals, I have to drive a total of 98 miles (34 from work to home, 32 from home to venue and another 32 home).

I have never felt particularly welcome with this group and after this evening's experiences, I think the camel's back has recieved its final straw. I have my other eye operation this week, so I would be missing next week anyway. I don't think I will be going back.

Some organisations deserve to fail.

 

[Shoyu]

Sometimes it's better not to look at the conductor.......

 

[jbtsax]

This is a timely topic for me as well. I have been called to substitute in the sax section in a local band a few times. The gigs have been ok but the rehearsals are extremely frustrating. The one I went to last week, I arrived 20 minutes early and was warmed up and ready to start on time. Then the group took the next 35 minutes discussing which songs they wanted to rehearse that evening and which songs should be on the set-list for the next gig, which songs were vocals, and which songs were'nt, and so on and so on. A group led by committee just doesn't work.

I don't think I'm going to available the next time I get a call. This waste of time just drives me crazy.

 

[kevgermany]

I agree. You almost have to have a social, friendly person who's going to take on the role of member integration, social cohesion. And.... Usually the conductor/director sets the scene for how members help/correct each other. I've had a lot of this since I joined the orchestra. We're not the most professional bunch, the social side is low, but there's good friendly help for people who struggle.

We've got quite a few doctors/consultants, senior managers as well as artists, and people with less senior jobs. All help each other. It's very reassuring to see the conductor treat all equally, respectfully, but clearly and helpfully getting across what's needed.

My wife plays in a few different ensembles. The conductor is critical.

 

[Jeanette]

Sorry to hear that @tenorviol I'm sure you will find a more welcoming orchestra. Sadly I suppose it is like any group, some are good some not so.

Perhaps you should form your own

Jx

 

[Tenor Viol]

I agree. You almost have to have a social, friendly person who's going to take on the role of member integration, social cohesion. And.... Usually the conductor/director sets the scene for how members help/correct each other. I've had a lot of this since I joined the orchestra. We're not the most professional bunch, the social side is low, but there's good friendly help for people who struggle.

We've got quite a few doctors/consultants, senior managers as well as artists, and people with less senior jobs. All help each other. It's very reassuring to see the conductor treat all equally, respectfully, but clearly and helpfully getting across what's needed.

My wife plays in a few different ensembles. The conductor is critical.

@kevgermany You're right and the best groups I have been involved with do that. One of my choirs is exactly as you describe - medical consultants, GPs, senior engineers, architects, nurses (interestingly no teachers) through to people working in supermarkets, council offices and postmen. These groups have a positive ethos of encouraging and helping members and they don't care what your day job is.

I feel for @jbtsax that's just unprofessional. I have always been hot on "amateur does not mean unprofessional" ('amateur' comes from the supine form of the Lating verb 'amare', to love (the supine form is 'amatum' and it is this form which usually gives rise to related words in English)). So an amateur is one who does something fo rthe love of it. Some organisations confuse 'democracy' with 'let's randomly discuss and make it up as we go along'. You have a committee and an MD to make those decisions - outside of rehearsals.

 

[Tenor Viol]

Sometimes it's better not to look at the conductor.......

Not the issue in this case

 

[BigMartin]

My own department I am #3. The other two hardly talk to me, except to bark criticism at me (publicly). Now I'm not a shrinking violet, but this just makes me feel unwanted. The other two seem to have the interpersonal skills of a pair of porcupines.

Nex time this happens, try walking out of a rehearsal. Make it obvious to the rest of the band why youi're upset. If tyhey care enough about having you there, they'll make Nos 1 and 2 aware that it's not acceptable. If they don't, you probably don't want to be there anyway. Life's too short to put up with jerks for long periods, IMO.

 

[Tenor Viol]

Nex time this happens, try walking out of a rehearsal. Make it obvious to the rest of the band why youi're upset. If tyhey care enough about having you there, they'll make Nos 1 and 2 aware that it's not acceptable. If they don't, you probably don't want to be there anyway. Life's too short to put up with jerks for long periods, IMO.

I agree and I seriously considered it last night. The trouble with being a cellist is the length of time it takes to pack up. In my case I've got the cello and bow to put away music stand and music and in this case a drummer's stool (primary school chairs are too low for me). By which time it kind of loses impact

 

[Shoyu]

This is a timely topic for me as well. I have been called to substitute in the sax section in a local band a few times. The gigs have been ok but the rehearsals are extremely frustrating. The one I went to last week, I arrived 20 minutes early and was warmed up and ready to start on time. Then the group took the next 35 minutes discussing which songs they wanted to rehearse that evening and which songs should be on the set-list for the next gig, which songs were vocals, and which songs were'nt, and so on and so on. A group led by committee just doesn't work.

I don't think I'm going to available the next time I get a call. This waste of time just drives me crazy.

A commitee is fine as long as everyone knows their job and sticks to it. When one person takes responsibility for everything things fall apart if they are off or leave (or die!).

 

[BigMartin]

I agree and I seriously considered it last night. The trouble with being a cellist is the length of time it takes to pack up. In my case I've got the cello and bow to put away music stand and music and in this case a drummer's stool (primary school chairs are too low for me). By which time it kind of loses impact

I don't know. Gives people time to come over and ask what the problem is.

 

[rhysonsax]

I've been the treasurer of our big band since it was formed in 2001. I'm happy to do my bit to help the smooth running of a band I enjoy playing with, and I can recognise all of the points that tenorviol has made in this thread.

One thing that has struck me over the 15 years as treasurer is that 90% of the people are helpful and as good as gold, but that the other 10% are high maintenance and the source of all the problems that do arise. In most cases they are probably unaware of the grief they cause. Things like not acknowledging messages, needing chasing up for subscriptions again and again, expecting the world to revolve around them, losing their music, arriving late, not organising deps.

Glad to have got that off my chest .....

Rhys

 

[Tenor Viol]

Agree - I've been involved in the admin and running or organisaitons for over 40 years (I started young). As you say, most are well-intentioned. The 'awkward squad' who can be rather viciferous about 'we' should be doing I have a simple asnwer to: We're busy enough doing the stuff to keep the organisaiton going but we can co-opt you onto the committee and you can work to see if we can make that happen.... They never do.

I strongly advocate rotation of key officers, especially chairman and secretary. If you don't it can become a one-man band and it then collapses when the one key person leaves

 

[Tenor Viol]

I wrote, politely but pointedly, to one of the miscreants. Not quite a damascene conversion perhaps, but there was a bit of an 'oh'.

I've decided to vote with my feet and I shall not be returning. I think I need some 'me' time anyway and a 2,000 mile reduciton in my annual mileage won't hurt.

I'm not there next Monday anyway as my next eye operaiton should be this Friday, so I shall send a note in the next few days. In the past I would have soldiered on, but I've come to realise that life is too short to work through all of these things, so I am much more prepared to just move on

 

[trimmy]

I've come to realise that life is too short to work through all of these things, so I am much more prepared to just move on

Totally agree

 

[Shoyu]

I have played in the pit with a conductor who conducted 3 backwards and, over the course of a number his 2 would turn upside down. He got by on the experience of the musicians in the pit. Really lovely chap, did a great job teaching the cast their stuff but conducting was not his forte. Sadly no longer with us, he'll be confusing the Angels on their harps!

 

[kevgermany]

@tenorviol good to move on, but out of courtesy let the guy who invited you know, with reasons. Some people can't take a hint, others can't even take straight requests for action. But.... You can move on with a clear conscience.

Good luck finding a replacement ensemble.

 

[Tenor Viol]

Thank @kevgermany - ironically, the chairman who invited me left at Christmas (his commute was worse than mine and he'd been doing it for 15 years). I have already given written feedback to my colleagues... Oblivious doesn't ven start it... I shall be e-mailing the chairman and I'll chat to the MD when I see him at another group.

 

[Tenor Viol]

If anyone thinks it would be useful (@Pete Thomas) , I am prepared to write a longer piece about how to set-up and run a group. I could cover how to register as a charity and what you need to do for that (unlikely for 4/5 part bands!). Might be useful if you're in a community group and want to get onto a more organised footing. Obviously the charity side of it is according to UK laws, but general principles should be universal (well terrestrial anyway)

I've been doing this sort of stuff since 1976, I'm currently on the board of trustees of two groups I'm in. One is an orchestra which is a Company Limited by Guarantee, the other is a music education group which puts on courses etc. That is currently an unincorporated society and I am just involved in re-writing their constitution to turn them into a CIO (Charitable Incorporated Organisation). Both of these are more complex than most groups are likely to need.

If there is interest, I will write up some thoughts on the various aspects. I'm going to be off for two weeks so I might be able to spend a few hours doing it.

 

[rhysonsax]

If anyone thinks it would be useful (@Pete Thomas) , I am prepared to write a longer piece about how to set-up and run a group. I could cover how to register as a charity and what you need to do for that (unlikely for 4/5 part bands!). Might be useful if you're in a community group and want to get onto a more organised footing. Obviously the charity side of it is according to UK laws, but general principles should be universal (well terrestrial anyway)

I've been doing this sort of stuff since 1976, I'm currently on the board of trustees of two groups I'm in. One is an orchestra which is a Company Limited by Guarantee, the other is a music education group which puts on courses etc. That is currently an unincorporated society and I am just involved in re-writing their constitution to turn them into a CIO (Charitable Incorporated Organisation). Both of these are more complex than most groups are likely to need.

If there is interest, I will write up some thoughts on the various aspects. I'm going to be off for two weeks so I might be able to spend a few hours doing it.

That sounds a great idea. Factual stuff and helpful hints as well.

I would have loved to have known that sort of thing when we set up our band 15 years ago and am sure there is still plenty to learn.

Rhys