Tech/maintenance Rotating Octave Thumb Rest (TJ Raw Alto)

davidk · Mar 19, 2017

Hello forum

I have a Trevor James Signature Custom Raw alto, and have noticed that the left hand thumb rest rotates (with some resistance). Is this because it needs screwing in tighter, or is it meant to do this? I only noticed this because it is engraved, and for all I know they all do this.

Many thanks

David

Pauly · Mar 19, 2017

I've not got any experience with these saxophones but I remember reading that they have a removable thumb rest:

A rolling blog of everyday life on and around the workbench

Apparently it's held on with a small grub screw. Perhaps that needs a little tightening?

Stephen Howard · Mar 19, 2017

If you look at the base of the thumb rest (the side that faces away from the palm keys) you'll see (as Pauly said) there's a tiny grub screw in the base. If you tighten this up it will prevent the rest from rotating.

However...(there's always something), if you loosen the screw and lift the rest out you'll see that there's a hole drilled through the stub of the rest. The idea is that you line this hole up with the grub screw then tighten the screw into it. But it's not the most accurately drilled hole, and what I've found is that you have to rotate the rest to find which hole best lines up with the screw...and more often than not this mean the nice logo on top of the rest will now be off kilter. If that doesn't matter, this is the way to go. If it does you'll have to settle for lining up the logo and tightening the screw against whatever it hits first (stub or hole).

You'll need a small flat-headed screwdriver - and don't go mad, you don't need to force the screw in.

saxyjt · Mar 19, 2017

That's quite interesting to read your blog @Stephen Howard on custom thumb rest as I am just about to start a small project of my own to make some custom work on the thumb rests and octave key of my Yamaha 23s. I should get the raw material next week. Following the replacement of the plastic keys by black MoP keys, I fancy adding a bit more of the black pearl touch to these horns. My sister has just returned from Tahiti yesterday with a few shells that I am hoping to turn into custom thumb rests and some nice pearl layer over the octave keys. I'll post images of the result if I'm successful in my endeavour! 😎

PS: I like the word endeavour as it reminds me of both James Cook's Endeavour and Thomas Sopwith's J Class boat from the America's cup.

Young Col · Mar 19, 2017

Off topic, but Tommy Sopwith's J class - quite something! Endeavour Morse?

Stephen Howard · Mar 19, 2017

I'd be a bit cautious about putting pearls on anything to do do with the thumb area.
You have constant contact with the thumb rest, and there's a definite sliding action whenever you reach for the octave key - and from what I see of pearls in this area they always end up breaking down over time. Even relatively hard nickel plate is no match for the thumb's action.

saxyjt · Mar 19, 2017

Stephen Howard said:
Even relatively hard nickel plate is no match for the thumb's action.

What do you mean by this? Nickel - hard - no match. I don't get it!

I don't know if you've seen original Tahitian back pearl shells, but they are rather thick and I'm hoping that I can cut a good chunk for the thumb rest. Pearls themselves can be 16mm in diameter! Gives you an idea. The octave key would just get an overlay for the beauty of it and hopefully something that also feels comfortable under the thumb.

saxyjt · Mar 19, 2017

Young Col said:
Off topic, but Tommy Sopwith's J class - quite something! Endeavour Morse?

I'm not familiar with the old Inspector Morse series, but I saw the young one not that long ago and liked it.

Stephen Howard · Mar 19, 2017

saxyjt said:
What do you mean by this? Nickel - hard - no match. I don't get it!

I don't know if you've seen original Tahitian back pearl shells, but they are rather thick and I'm hoping that I can cut a good chunk for the thumb rest. Pearls themselves can be 16mm in diameter! Gives you an idea. The octave key would just get an overlay for the beauty of it and hopefully something that also feels comfortable under the thumb.

They're all the same basic material - MOP, Abalone, shell etc. Highly decorative but not terribly resistant to acidic sweat and friction.
It's just something I've noticed down the years - whenever a horn comes in with a MOP thumbrest it nearly always needs some smoothing down.

As for nickel/no match. Nikel plate is often used on student horns as a decorative plating for the keywork. It's not very attractive (once it tarnishes) but it's as hard as nails. It really resists wear and acid sweat.
But if there's any wear at all on nickel-plated keywork you'll see it first on the octave key and then the palm key touchpieces. Any combination of chemical and physical action that can cut through nickel plate will easily go right through any kind of shell (barring 2nd world war, of course).

Have a peek at the last shot in this review...you have both a substantial pearl and nickel plated keys...and both are worn:

Holton 'Super' Collegiate 666 alto sax review

Just something to bear in mind for the long term.

saxyjt · Mar 19, 2017

Stephen Howard said:
Just something to bear in mind for the long term.

If it doesn't survive me, it'll be someone else's problem! 😀

davidk · Mar 19, 2017

Stephen Howard said:
If you look at the base of the thumb rest (the side that faces away from the palm keys) you'll see (as Pauly said) there's a tiny grub screw in the base. If you tighten this up it will prevent the rest from rotating.

However...(there's always something), if you loosen the screw and lift the rest out you'll see that there's a hole drilled through the stub of the rest. The idea is that you line this hole up with the grub screw then tighten the screw into it. But it's not the most accurately drilled hole, and what I've found is that you have to rotate the rest to find which hole best lines up with the screw...and more often than not this mean the nice logo on top of the rest will now be off kilter. If that doesn't matter, this is the way to go. If it does you'll have to settle for lining up the logo and tightening the screw against whatever it hits first (stub or hole).

You'll need a small flat-headed screwdriver - and don't go mad, you don't need to force the screw in.

Thank you, I have now secured the thumb rest with the grub screw going into the drilled hole. And now I have an off kilter logo. Don't go mad, you say? This is an OCD nightmare 🙂

saxyjt · Mar 24, 2017

Black Pearl shells arrived from Tahiti by way of my sister:

I think I have the appropriate tools, so is my... wait for it... 'Legendary'* skills are still what they used to be, I might do something with them.

* Sorry for the reference to HIMYM, but before I discovered saxophone my life was miserable and I watched this American series.