All profit supporting special needs music education and Help Musicians

Rolling Stones drop Brown Sugar from US tour set list

thomsax

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,439
Locality
Sweden
"Brown Sugar", with one of the most famous rocksax solos. We dropped Stones songs for 5-6 years ago. Not easy to be a grandfather and teacher and play songs like that. On the other side, it's music I've played since I was 15 years old. Try to play like Bobby Keys was imporatant for me.
 
Last edited:

Jimmymack

Member
Messages
794
Locality
London
If you applied modern sensitivities to the Stones back catalogue I don’t think they’d have much left. I’ve never liked Brown Sugar just as a piece of music so I haven’t listened to the lyrics but from what I’ve read it sounds like a good move, I hope they got rid of Under My Thumb a long time ago.
 

AndyB

Member
Messages
325
Locality
Durham, NC, USA
Not defending the songs lyrics, but it is startling how the context of things changes over time. In recent years, here in the southern states of the USA, anything associated with the history of the south before the civil war in any manner at all is assumed to be pro-slavery and denounced. There is currently a rampant campaign to tear down monuments and rename buildings. I've even heard of paintings with antebellum houses in them denounced. However, people are so generally ignorant of history here that topics such as a "cakewalk" get completely missed by the outraged masses. B. B. King's Indianola Mississippi Seeds album cover would literally cause riots today. Some call the USA the United States of The Offended today. ;)
 

Targa

Among the pigeons
Café Supporter
Messages
9,463
Locality
KIC 8462852
Here's something you wouldn't be able to see now and not just Cousin Daisy's attire.
Cousin Daisy.jpg
 

Jules

Formerly known as "nachoman"
Messages
4,919
Locality
brighton by the sea
If you applied modern sensitivities to the Stones back catalogue I don’t think they’d have much left.
I'd thought the same- they were very much of their time and large chunks of their repertoire are a bit suspect by modern sensibilities
 

AndyB

Member
Messages
325
Locality
Durham, NC, USA
I'd thought the same- they were very much of their time and large chunks of their repertoire are a bit suspect by modern sensibilities
Question is whether the Rolling Stones would be as memorable as Herman's Hermits today if they had not been bad boys.
 

Colin the Bear

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,781
Locality
Burnley bb9 9dn
Strange how euphemisms enter the language and then offend. It'll probably be alright when they're dead. Boom Boom! Out go the lights. :eek:

Is George Formby still PC?

Edit. I just googled the lyrics. Wow! I never heard them before. I must have heard it hundreds of times but never heard them. I thought it was the "Brown sugar" bit that offended. Apparently not. :blush:
 
Last edited:

Jimmymack

Member
Messages
794
Locality
London
No, it’s crude, macho, misogynistic stuff with a strong smell of racial stereotyping hanging around. The slavery excuse from Keef doesn’t really cut it.
 

Dr G

Member
Messages
407
Locality
Northern California
In recent years, here in the southern states of the USA, anything associated with the history of the south before the civil war in any manner at all is assumed to be pro-slavery and denounced.
Are you alright with the Confederate flag? I’ll admit to living in the South for many years, and never did understand why someone would want it on their clothes, car, or truck. What is the reason to celebrate the Confederate flag?

FWIW, I also served in the military and then 20+ more years in national defense. I ranked “Master” level in .45 bullseye and action shooting.
 

AndyB

Member
Messages
325
Locality
Durham, NC, USA
Are you alright with the Confederate flag? I’ll admit to living in the South for many years, and never did understand why someone would want it on their clothes, car, or truck. What is the reason to celebrate the Confederate flag?

FWIW, I also served in the military and then 20+ more years in national defense. I ranked “Master” level in .45 bullseye and action shooting.
Thanks for asking. My great grandfather was shot and lost the use of one arm at the battle of Richmond. His first cousin was shot and killed at the same battle. Two of his brothers and another cousin died of illness in camp. A couple more died soon after the war or were permanently disabled. Collectively the ones that died left wives and over 15 orphaned children that barely survived. I see the flag and monuments as symbols of what they and their families suffered for. None owned slaves. They saw the war as solely about political and economic subjugation of the southern states. Today many cities in the south are centers of business and technology and many northerners relocate here for jobs. Look up the term "carpetbaggers" and you will understand why a lot of southerners feel the effort to subjugate the southern states and southern culture still goes on today. That's why I think many see the old flag as a symbol of southern pride and continued resistance to "The War of Northern Oppression".
 
Last edited:

Dr G

Member
Messages
407
Locality
Northern California
Thank you for that, Andy.

That business and tech is relocating because they can pay lower wages and take advantage of the tax structure - y’all are being taken advantage of, if you choose to look at it that way. As to the movement of Americans to the South, you’re welcome. Some of my colleagues in grad school accepted academic positions in your universities to provide higher education opportunities for the locals (never mind that one is a woman, and the other hails from India - and yes, I’ve met many of their students at conferences, and they are indeed of the population local to the schools).

I don’t get the “War of Northern Oppression” - from the outside looking it, the South is a land of opportunity.
 

BUMNOTE

Senior Member
Messages
606
Locality
Wolverhampton West Midlands
Things happen,good and bad and hopefully learn from it,me personally am fed up being told what programmes on tv we cannot see anymore or songs we cannot listen to,being bombarded how we being a certain ethinticity are to blame for all the wrong in the world,i am fed up with these woke warriors challenging and telling us what we should be doing and those idiots blocking roads,stopping people from doing daily journeys.Another ten,fifteen years this country will be renamed lala land.One thing i am sure of is YOU LIVE AND LEARN..THEN DIE AND FORGET IT.:cheers:
 

John Setchell

Member
Messages
255
Locality
Norfolk UK
Thanks for asking. My great grandfather was shot and lost the use of one arm at the battle of Richmond. His first cousin was shot and killed at the same battle. Two of his brothers and another cousin died of illness in camp. A couple more died soon after the war or were permanently disabled. Collectively the ones that died left wives and over 15 orphaned children that barely survived. I see the flag and monuments as symbols of what they and their families suffered for. None owned slaves. They saw the war as solely about political and economic subjugation of the southern states. Today many cities in the south are centers of business and technology and many northerners relocate here for jobs. Look up the term "carpetbaggers" and you will understand why a lot of southerners feel the effort to subjugate the southern states and southern culture still goes on today. That's why I think many see the old flag as a symbol of southern pride and continued resistance to "The War of Northern Oppression".
Fascinating to hear you guys discussing this. I’m Brit and never really understood the American civil war, so when visiting friends in CA asked them. They didn’t have a clue! - just a vague feeling that what they had been taught at school probably wasn’t The Truth.
I’ve read several books about it and come away with the impression that while international pressure for abolition of slavery was a contributory factor, there were other power-play agendas.

- Don’t even ASK about the English civil war! It was essentially A People’s Revolution, but in typical Brit fashion we had a king back on the throne within a few years.
 

AndyB

Member
Messages
325
Locality
Durham, NC, USA
- Don’t even ASK about the English civil war! It was essentially A People’s Revolution, but in typical Brit fashion we had a king back on the throne within a few years.

LOL. My immigrant ancestor helped lose the English Civil War too and then fled Lincolnshire afterwards and settled across the James River from Jamestown in 1650. It's said that Oliver Cromwell had a ship sail up the James River and anchor in the river with its gun ports open just to say "I know where you live." Or at least that is the story that's told.

I've struggled all my life to understand the American Civil War and I think that there is a little bit true and a little bit false about every statement that you will ever hear about it. It was very complex and extremely nuanced. It is filled with fascinating stories too. For example, a distant relative of mine re-enlisted in an otherwise all-black company from Illinois as head musician. I wish I knew his story. There were also battles in that war where cousins from my family fought on opposite sides.

Also the founder of Conn Musical Instruments made bugles for the union army during the war.
 
Last edited:

John Setchell

Member
Messages
255
Locality
Norfolk UK
"Brown Sugar", with one of the most famous rocksax solos. We dropped Stones songs for 5-6 years ago. Not easy to be a grandfather and teacher and play songs like that. On the other side, it's music I've played since I was 15 years old. Try to play like Bobby Keys was imporatant for me.
I also have been playing that song for years. Yeah it’s risqué and lewd, but racist?…
The lyrics give Jagger/Richard’s view of How It Was a couple of hundred years ago. As far as I can see they don’t applaud or encourage that sort of behaviour now.
- But I accept that others may have different takes on it. I guess I’ll never be playing it again.
 

Staff online

Popular Discussions

London
Paris
New York
Los Angeles
Sydney
Moscow
New Delhi
Top Bottom