Beginner rhythm dilemma

[agganitk]

Hello,

I think I am able to play scales & exercises On beat with decent accuracy up to tempo of 160-180 bpm, but the problem comes when i try to play eighth beat. (e.g. 1/8 th on 4/4 timing). I see on internet many suggestions.. tapping the foot, counting "1 and 2....I tried tapping the foot but my rhythm doesn't get any better for eighth beat on 4/4 timing. I feel like I am lost now.

Do players actually count "1 and 2 and 3 and 4" in their mind?

 

[Colin the Bear]

Only when I'm learning a new piece. Once you've got it just play it.Try it with a drum machine rather than a metronome.

 

[MandyH]

Take it very slowly! I tap very deliberately and play the off beat when my foot rises, the on beat when my foot falls.
Or try grunting on the beat and then playing off the beat.

Play bars of quavers, then miss out the first one.
or play them as 2 different notes then miss out the first one (don't play it but do finger it)

Off beats and syncopation are still the 2 things that fill me with dread (well those and triplets), but I usually get there in the end.

Never try playing a new piece at full speed until you've got to grips with it slowly first.

I do count "1 and 2 and ..." but like Colin, only when I am learning a piece.

 

[Justin Chune]

There are only four beats in 4/4 time regardless of how many notes there are in the bar. If were about to play a passage of crochets I wouldn't count any of them. Pick a speed you can cope with and internalise that pulse. Always count yourself in and start playing the notes, on the beat, without counting. !234 play play play etc. This is the rule I was given. "Make no attempt to count any beat on which you commence a note."

If you can play at 160/180 bpm you are doing well. To play a scale in 8th notes you could half the speed you played it in 1/4 tones. You now have to play two notes on every beat but it should sound the same. Up in bar one, down in bar two, then repeat and hold the key-note for the whole of bar three. Put the ands in if you like. 1234 doh ray me fa so la te doh. doh te la so fa me ray doh. doh234. off. Sing this over in your head before you play it to get it under your foot. Another rule I was given "Make no attempt to count any beat that comes after an off-beat quaver," as in the third bar for example. Just feel the beat and count the next one, if its countable, that is.

I hope this is of some help to you.

Jim.

 

[Tenor Viol]

To be honest, it works differently for people. When singing in choirs, or playing in orchestras, what happens depends on the complexity of the piece and my familiarity with it.

• Stuff I know well or that is not difficult, I don't 'knowingly' count
• Most more complex stuff, I have some sort of pulse going, but don't count, even if it's just a twitching toe, whilst keeping an eye on the conductor
• Some stuff (I was doing this today playing Beethoven 3 in orchestra) I will count in my head - usually implies it's tricky...

 

[jbtsax]

Hello,

I think I am able to play scales & exercises On beat with decent accuracy up to tempo of 160-180 bpm, but the problem comes when i try to play eighth beat. (e.g. 1/8 th on 4/4 timing). I see on internet many suggestions.. tapping the foot, counting "1 and 2....I tried tapping the foot but my rhythm doesn't get any better for eighth beat on 4/4 timing. I feel like I am lost now.

Do players actually count "1 and 2 and 3 and 4" in their mind?

Here is an idea of something you might try to get the feel of subdivision which is what eighth notes (quavers) are all about.

1. Play one of your scales that you know in quarter notes (crotchets) at mm=160 a few times tapping your toe on each beat.
2. Turn your metronome down to half that speed mm=80 and play the scale exactly the same way still tapping your toe at 160 beats per minute or twice per beat at this new tempo
3. Play the scale the same way, but this time tap your toe on every beat of the metronome so that you are "feeling" 2 to a bar instead of 4.

Another variation is to play a fast song you know in 4/4 time and alternate tapping your toe on every beat one time through the song and tapping on just 1 & 3 another time through the song to feel "cut time" or the subdivision of the beat.