Rhythm counting in starting

agganitk · Mar 4, 2015

I have a question on rhythm counting before playing. Some people may find this questions stupid, but who cares :sax:

Few recordings I have heard has 123 223 in 3/4 sign before playing started or something similar (1_2_ , 1234) for 4/4 signature

What difference it makes, if it is counted this way or say 123 123

Jeanette · Mar 4, 2015

123 is fine while you are playing but if you have a few bars rest then 123 223 323 helps you keep track

Jx

Nick Wyver · Mar 4, 2015

agganitk said:
What difference it makes, if it is counted this way or say 123 123

No difference. Do whatever you fancy.
Quite often, in our band, it's something like, "1 -2 - 6349"

Colin the Bear · Mar 4, 2015

1 - 2 1 2..... " Hang on! Hang on! I've not found the chords yet!

"Ok guys I'd like to do this one as a waltz as per the original." 1-2-3-1-2-3 Crash and march from the drums, old fashioned look from the bass to the guitar and a squeak of surprise from the sax.

Seriously though I think the 123 223 count in is when for simplicity something is written or stated as being 34 when it's really 68.

One trumpet lead I play with brings a foot board to tap out the tempo and bring the band in.

Young Col · Mar 4, 2015

Like J says, it's useful for counting bars' rest. We have a piece in 6/8 where different instruments come in at various points after the start with the alto having 12 bars rest. There is so much going on that until it becomes instinctive you really do need to count 1-2,2-2,3-2... to get the entry right.

jbtsax · Mar 4, 2015

A 2 bar count off is common when a leader starts a tune. It's only purpose is to set the tempo. How it is counted is irrelevant. In 4/4 time it is common to hear "1....2....1 2 3 4". It really should be "1....3....1 2 3 4".

agganitk · Mar 4, 2015

Okkkkkkk...........jbstax, you got my question correctly. Thanks

thanks everyone

kevgermany · Mar 4, 2015

In other words, the first number keeps track of the bars, the other numbers the beats in the bar.

Alc. · Mar 4, 2015

To me, after the 1...2...1 2 3 4 the beast belongs to the drummer and bass, regardless of blowers, just to keep everybody honest. After that the pretty people come in, do what they do, and take all the credit (if they were adequate). Not a thing wrong with that, it's just the way it is (unless drums and bass are credited their fair share of solos). Just like to keep the light on folks who are overlooked these days, due to shadowy backing-tracks.

Reading this back, it may be the wrong thread. I sometimes wander.

Tenor Viol · Mar 4, 2015

I play cello (and sax for that matter) in orchestras. Orchestral players (no doubt others too) count bars of rests usually as, for example, 123, 223, 323, 423... etc.

But, you also need a tempo to be given. Bands tend not to have conductors like orchestras, so someone (e.g. drummer with sticks) does what jbt says, which is go 1 . 2 . 1 2 3 4 (which as he says is not quite right...). I have never understood why you would go '1 . 2 ') unless you intended to count 'alla breve' (so-called 'cut' time - that's not correct, but that's a different topic for another day: if you're keen look-up prolation), but I doubt if most bands would be familiar with a 2/2 time signature, or would want to count a 4/4 piece in 2. So that one is definitely an oddity.

MandyH · Mar 5, 2015

tenorviol said:
I play cello (and sax for that matter) in orchestras. Orchestral players (no doubt others too) count bars of rests usually as, for example, 123, 223, 323, 423... etc.

But, you also need a tempo to be given. Bands tend not to have conductors like orchestras, so someone (e.g. drummer with sticks) does what jbt says, which is go 1 . 2 . 1 2 3 4 (which as he says is not quite right...). I have never understood why you would go '1 . 2 ') unless you intended to count 'alla breve' (so-called 'cut' time - that's not correct, but that's a different topic for another day: if you're keen look-up prolation), but I doubt if most bands would be familiar with a 2/2 time signature, or would want to count a 4/4 piece in 2. So that one is definitely an oddity.

I count bars rest on my fingers - putting one finger down on each key per bar as I go.

so I count up to 6 bars rest at a time, then go round again.

I do this because invariably I forget how many bars rest I have counted! so I go 1 (finger B) 234, 2 (finger A) 234, 3 (finger G) 234.... until I reach 6 (finger D) 234, then back round to 7 (finger B) 234 etc

Colin the Bear · Mar 5, 2015

Was it the Samarians that used their knuckles/finger joints to count? Using the thumb move down the fingers in turn. You can count to twelve on one hand. By marking the dozens the same way with the other hand you can count to 144. If you get a 144 bar break you may as well pop to the bar or do some shopping.

jbtsax · Mar 5, 2015

MandyH said:
I count bars rest on my fingers - putting one finger down on each key per bar as I go.

so I count up to 6 bars rest at a time, then go round again.

I do this because invariably I forget how many bars rest I have counted! so I go 1 (finger B) 234, 2 (finger A) 234, 3 (finger G) 234.... until I reach 6 (finger D) 234, then back round to 7 (finger B) 234 etc

Hey, I thought I was the only one who did that. :cheers:

Tenor Viol · Mar 5, 2015

I have to say that one piece drove me nuts last term as I had 73 bars rest. But, the tempo varied, the time signature changed twice... Fortunately, it did at least give say 18 bars rest, indicate the time change then give you 27 bars rest, etc :confused: