Beginner Replacing corks and felts; basics?

[mizmar]

Just in case anyone thinks I'm done, Today's job was to replace the padding where the front f lifts the palm F or something. So that's the palm keys; removed, rods clean-and-lubed and a much quieter action.

The final (obviously not, but on my immediate list) job is the messed up Low Bb key... a long standing issue mentioned here...

 

[mizmar]

Question.
Regarding key heights above tone hole.

Basically, how would you tell if a key is too low when open? Roughly?

I'm fussed with my low C particularly because the buffer is quite compressed and i found that padding it out a bit makes it faster and more fluid to play. The D and C# above are in tune ok using a tuner app (my ears are pretty rubbish) and seem to play fine.

Edit
A couple of links here and sotw or sotw with some clues. And Musicmedic with some augury.

 

[turf3]

You've got to start with the keys set at a good medium opening (eyeball), then you'll find a few that want a little more opening or a little less.

The stack key regulation is the most difficult as there are very few keys that can be set more open without interfering with the rest, and setting most of the keys any lower results in lost motion and a sloppy feeling.

Most people have the palm keys set too open.

You just have to get familiar with the particular instrument, and then make small incremental changes and see what happens. If you find yourself making huge adjustments, you've probably gotten off track somewhere. 99.999% of saxophones will play well in tune with normal small adjustments.

 

[mizmar]

Cheers. I'm not about to check all the key openings!!
I'm happy enough knowing the bell keys are about right more for timing than sound.

 

[jbtsax]

D2 on many saxes has a "stuffy" or what I call a "hooty" sound---especially when played next to the dry and open sounding C#2. This is because it is the first note in the 2nd mode using the octave key and has all the stack keys closed. In addition it is an "undervented" note that vents through the open tonehole low C which is followed by a closed tonehole C#. I have found the height of the low C key is often a compromise that provides enough venting to allow the D to speak clearly but not open enough to exacerbate the natural sharpness of that note. I have found that on some Selmer tenors, the low D will produce a "warble" if the low C key is not open enough.

When D2 is held as a long tone in the music one way to improve the sound and pitch is to replace the body octave vent by opening the D palm key. Another useful method is to close the low B key while playing the D2 with the regular fingering. A flat low D can sometimes be corrected by opening the low C# key.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Didn't I read on here that as a general guide the height of the key heights should be one third of the diameter?

 

[mizmar]

Well. I had a good fettle with the bell keys. The Bb spatula is better oriented and it's all a bit more fluid. But there's clearly an art to balancing it all out.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Voodoo and patience is what you need.

 

[jbtsax]

Didn't I read on here that as a general guide the height of the key heights should be one third of the diameter?

That is a very general guide. I took some measurements on a YAS-23 and compared the tonehole diameters with the Yamaha recommended key openings. Some are very close, but the opening of the D is considerably smaller possibly because that tonehole vents the note E which is often sharp on most saxophones. My method of setting the key heights of the stack keys consists of setting the opening of the F key which then determines the openings of the rest of the stack keys once regulation and removal of lost motion is finished.

 

[mizmar]

Small update.
So, for no particularly good reason, I finally decided to try a "gown up" mouthpiece for the "shabby sax" tenor... which, turns out, had to sit a bit further out to be in tune (or had a wider bore^* ) and was lose... indicating time for new neck cork.

So, the MM kit includes: pre-bevelled neck cork, 1 off.

Not to hard, seems fine, for a first go. Certainly worked and no need for sanding down other than to remove the overlap bump... It's not as flat as the shadow in the photo makes it look!

^* The Link Tone Edge is actually 4mm shorter than the Yamaha 6C

 

[mizmar]

Well, that was weird.

A few days ago the scruffy sax (not me, of course) started playing-up around A, lower register, and lots of stuff below was flaky.

Had a careful inspect in a dark room and really the cap below the A and the one below weren't closing well.

The running repair used - and I'm probably wrong - was a shim under the felt (really a very thin bit of cork) and a slight readjustment of screws to ensure the hole somewhere above closed properly.

Maybe the felt needs replacing?
I don't have any of the right size to hand.

And why that just happened, I've no idea. Cold? Got knocked (not to my knowledge and I don't see how that'd cause this)? Age?

Again, nice to be able to fettle enough to keep the thing ticking over without a trip to the vet.

 

[jbtsax]

Well, that was weird.

A few days ago the scruffy sax (not me, of course) started playing-up around A, lower register, and lots of stuff below was flaky.

Had a careful inspect in a dark room and really the cap below the A and the one below weren't closing well.

The running repair used - and I'm probably wrong - was a shim under the felt (really a very thin bit of cork) and a slight readjustment of screws to ensure the hole somewhere above closed properly.

Maybe the felt needs replacing?
I don't have any of the right size to hand.

And why that just happened, I've no idea. Cold? Got knocked (not to my knowledge and I don't see how that'd cause this)? Age?

Again, nice to be able to fettle enough to keep the thing ticking over without a trip to the vet.

Welcome to the world of sax repair and regulation. The A, Bis, C area in the upper stack can be tricky. When this area goes out of adjustment it means that a piece of buffering material has fallen off or compressed over time. When I do overhauls I try to use the materials least likely to compress and still give the quieting I am looking for. Sometimes I "pre-compress" cork, tech cork, or felt by hammering or squeezing in a vice before installation. I can get a pretty good reading of how much compression is possible by squeezing it with my digital calipers.

 

[PigSquealer]

COA….clean, oil, adjust. All normal signs of use. Yamaha has great adjusting screws. Building up cork or felt can be done. Proper or just working ? Depends how much time & effort you’re willing to put into it.

 

[Colin the Bear]

In each saxophone case is a small sheet of self adhesive cork and felt. Also a couple of rubber bands. With a Swiss army knife in my pocket I can usually keep things playing.

 

[mizmar]

So, yeah. According to my logbook (this thread, post 14) this is a felt I replaced 13 months ago. It was the only one of that size in the Music Medic goody bag.. which is interesting.

Anyway, it plays much nicer and I can stop compensating with force!

 

[PigSquealer]

So, yeah. According to my logbook (this thread, post 14) this is a felt I replaced 13 months ago. It was the only one of that size in the Music Medic goody bag.. which is interesting.

Anyway, it plays much nicer and I can stop compensating with force!

Go to a yardage store and find some wool felt. Maybe a scrap. Should make lifetime of spares. Mix blend is OK as long as it’s stable.

 

[thomsax]

Send me a pm if you want corks and felts. I don't sell, just give away. To send a letter is easy. If you hurry up a CD-r with sax drenched Rock & Roll "Jullåtar" is also in the envelope. That's the price you've to pay! It's corks and felts that I bought from Ferree's so it's white felts and cork sheet in different thicknesses and diameter (just felts).

 

[mizmar]

Send me a pm if you want corks and felts. I don't sell, just give away. To send a letter is easy. If you hurry up a CD-r with sax drenched Rock & Roll "Jullåtar" is also in the envelope. That's the price you've to pay! It's corks and felts that I bought from Ferree's so it's white felts and cork sheet in different thicknesses and diameter (just felts).

That is ganske cool!

 

[Subtilior]

Ok, so the scruffy sax (Vito yts 23ish) occasionally sheds bits of cork or felt; it's an age thing, I guess. I've done some running repairs with whatever sticky/padded stuff I've had to hand; but now the situation is not brilliant with - otherwise apparently good - pads not closing properly and lots of clunking. I can solve some of it by adjusting skrews but it's not great.

I Think I'm up to replacing this stuff - at least what I can without removing keywork, but I'm not sure what stock I should readily have to hand. Sheets of corks of what thickness? Felt? Contact cement? And tools? Sandpaper? Etc.

I'd appreciate any thoughts of what to get in before I start. Also any "the knack" thoughts!
cheers

Get the Haynes Saxophone Manual by Stephen Howard. Covers all sorts of maintenance and repair jobs.

 

[mizmar]

Get the Haynes Saxophone Manual by Stephen Howard. Covers all sorts of maintenance and repair jobs.

Other than that it's out of print, and with all due respect, I've already paid Haynes far too much money for coffee cup coasters full of instructions that are beyond my technical needs....

... I still would, if it was online!