Reeds Reed Rotation????

[AlanB]

A couple of weeks ago I started a thread "What's your poison?" to begin my search for my perfect reed, and loads of you really helped me isolate what would be some really good reeds for the a certain kind of sound.

Yesterday an experienced sax playing friend bowled me for a googly!!!:shocked:

Until now, I have chosen a new reed that I like the look of (usually when I don't have any up coming performances), and can expect to play it for a week until it 'breaks in' and it plays the way I want it to in all registers. Then I will stay with it for months, because I am used to the way it plays and feel comfortable with it.

My friend says this is the wrong approach. He suggests that one should have between 5-10 reeds on the go at the same time rotating to a different one each day (7 would seem the obvious choice each marked with a day of the week). He suggests that each reed has pros and cons and that by staying with the same reed your embouchure and everything else gets used to the bad points of a particular reed, and creates bad habits.

He also suggests that I choose a stiffer reed than I usually play with and shave it (he will show me how next week). I think this is because the denser fibres will play better and last longer, while you make the reed more flexible by the shaving??

I never heard of this approach before, and wondered if anyone else did this? What is the received wisdom on this approach? My friend says that this is important not only for the super-pro recording artists, but for anyone wanting to develop strong versatile tone and not create bad habits.
yours flabbergasted,
Al

PS I always write such long posts, sorry about that!!

 

[Nick Cook]

Well, I don't do all that shaving business, but I do rotate round two or three reeds at a time.

 

[thehunt]

I do the same as Nick, i mark my reeds with a start date on the back. ( only way it works for me ) and have a hard plastic case which i keep them in, and rotate them. I do however stay with one reed if it sounds really good, bit lazy, but heh! we are supposed toenjoy our playing, i don't see the point in trying to make a bad reed sound good by playing it in. If at all possible? Maybe other members have more experience on this matter.

 

[Pete Thomas]

No, I don't rotate reeds or shave them. I know some people like to rotate them, but never heard of having to shave them. I don't think this is something all or many super pro recording artists do.

 

[Taz]

Oh no....not another "You got to do it my way" approach!!!!!!
Al, I'm not going to say that your friend is wrong, it's just that his approach to the perfect set up works for him. I've read so many posts about bad reeds and how, in a box of ten reeds, nine and a half of them are no good or need some sort of intervention to make them playable. I've Never, in the four years I've been playing, had a bad reed yet. Does this mean that I've got the embouchure of an "Abyssinian lip lifting champion?" i don't think so, although the wife did say..... but that's another story! I wonder if my embouchure is just very adaptable, I don't know. Whatever it is, the answer is what works for you is what you have to do! I place a reed on my mpc and play it till it dies, two or three months later. It works for me...many will tell you differently!
The choice, as they say, is yours.
Taz

 

[cmelodysax]

Taz - I get confused when I read where someone says (e.g.) "I only get a couple of good reeds out of a box..." :shocked: I think ( in fifty years of playing, some of it as a pro, up to six hours a night...) I've thrown away less than a handful of reeds. If anyone gets that many 'bad' reeds, change to a more consistent brand, and if they're still that bad - it's probably down to the players technique/embouchure, or the mouthpiece, or obsession, or too much disposable income, or a combination of those...

Anyone is welcome to send any 'bad' reeds to me, I'll give them a good talking to...🙂

(imho) Shaving is a mixed blessing, as is reed drilling or clipping - as long as you select a grade which, when 'played' in, feels good, then there's nowt wrong with that...

When I played seriously I rotated up to four reeds in a clip, but ONLY on the basis that if a reed got ruined (for whatever reason) or got a bit non-responsive I didn't want to have to play a new one in on the spot. Often that clip would only contain one reed for each instrument as a spare, obviously paranoia sets in if I'd had a clip for each instrument... That clip would also have wrapped around it, the essential saxophone repair item, a couple of rubber bands ! That worked for decades.

 

[TomMapfumo]

Hi Alan!

I usually soak and then play 6 - 10 reeds in any box and usually rate them +1, 1 or -1, according to how good they sound/feel. Then use the former 2 in rotations of 4, using the +1's for performances etc. If a 1 category improves with age it gets a plus sign before it, but prefer to know the score before I slowly go through a box of reeds.

On trumpet/cornet/flugelhorn & trombone I just put the mouthpiece on and play to my hearts content, and take it off when I've finished!

Have stuck with the practice of reed rotation for approx 3 years, and it seems to work for me. Certainly before I would play a reed 'til death (by which time it was very soft), and then start on a new, comparatively much harder reed, allowing my embouchure to gradually tighten up over several days - which I did not find very effective, so now start several at the same time so that I no longer have this period of adaptation.

Good luck with what ever works for you.
Kind regards
Tom😎

 

[thomsax]

I used to rotate, file, cut, shave, scrub .... my reeds. I took four reeds out of a box and made them as even as possible. Took a lot of time, but it worked out fine for me. I also used a hard reed and "downfiled" it.

Nowadays I'm playing on Rico Plasticcover baritone reeds on tenor and bari. So far, the best reed for me. No more preperation !!!

Thomas

 

[AlanB]

So it seems to be 'horses for courses'. I have to admit my friend said that I 'must' rotate and shave, so I felt like I had been a philistine all this time (besides rotating while shaving is an xtreme-sport in some countries🙂))). I guess the 'breaking-in' period is a combination of the reed becoming more flexible and your embouchure adapting to the stiffer new reed, as Tom (mapfumo) says. I think I might try rotating about 3 reeds though, since it annoys me waiting 1-2 weeks until the reed plays the way I like. I am like many on this thread, I like to just pick up the sax and concentrate on what i want to concentrate on rather than worrying too much over the reed and how different it is from the next one, and why I suddenly can't get B & Bb easily etc., etc. Also gigging puts quite a lot of stain on reeds, especially on a small stage, everyone bumping and jostling. It would be great to have back up and know its going to play the way I like. I'll wait and see what technique for shaving my friend uses and his justification for it. I'll report back.

 

[Pete Thomas]

As today is Thread Revival Friday, just thought I'd dig out a few that could do with some TLC. This one also gives me the opportunity to wheel out my old anecdote about reed rotation.

 

[Vlad]

Ok I'll play
I never 'rotate' reeds, I'll leave it on the MP until it gets busted, or I reckon it's knackered, (ok maybe I'll take it off to wipe out the inside of the MP occasionally )
As to shaving or sanding reeds, don't bother these days, though as a teenager I experimented a bit messing with them, of course in the 70s picking up some reeds was a bit more of a trek than it is now 🙂

 

[Targa]

I usually have three in use though not rotated strictly in sequence so that if one gives up there is one or two others playable and then a new one can be started.

 

[thomsax]

I still do some reed preparation/adjustments. I've been playing more LaVoz reeds instead of Plasticover. I have four LaVoz baritone ready in the reedgard.

 

[davidk]

For each of my three main mouthpieces (classical, jazz, noisy) I have a corresponding reed case containing four cane and two synthetic reeds. I rotate the cane reeds every time I pack up the sax (I take the reed off the mouthpiece before putting it away). If I’m using synthetic for a long gig I’ll rotate it in the break.

 

[MikeMorrell]

First of all, great question Alan!

IMHO each sax player has her/his own 'routines'. Me too.

I once used (as a relative beginner) to rotate my reeds, after I'd read on the café that it was 'advised'. I also used to 'grade' my reeds (stiff, good, soft, clear tone, 'duff tone', easy/difficult to play,) etc. Also 'advised' on the café.

T.BH. I gave up these practices years ago. Don't get me wrong: i still think that these are very useful practices! Mainly (IHMO) to learn feel and hear the differences between different reeds out the same box. And - very gradually - learn how to finely adjust different reeds to get them to play and sound better.

Why did I give up the 'reed rotation' practice? Mostly because I got 'lazy' 😉.
But also because I gradually learned much more (via the café) about 'micro-adjusting' the position of a (specific) reed w.r.t. the mpc. And also 'micro-adjusting' the lig. w.r.t. the mpc. My 'guru' in this was professor (of saxophone) Steven Mauk at Ithica college. It's sad that - since his death - the link to his original article on 'Reed Placement & Adjustment' has now been replaced by a a generic link to 'Professor Steven Mauk'. His original article is still available at Weebly.

In the same period, I also learned much more about 'reed adjustment' (which I still occasionally use).

Back to 'reed rotation'. This practice served me well for many years. But as I gradually learned to play on most reeds 'out of the box' (following Steve Mauks's tips) with occasional reed adjustments, I gradually became less fixated on 'individual reeds'. I still always have 3-5 'new reeds' in my sax bag. And I still soak any new reeds for at least 5 minutes in water. I play them ad compare them. I move the best to my 'reed case'

To summarise 'reed rotation' is absolutely a good practice! Especially when you begin notice any differences between reeds.
In my personal experience, this (valid) 'recommended practice' has- over many years - led me to discover much more about 'reeds

 

[Nick Wyver]

As I may have mentioned before ( ), my reeds live in airtight plastic containers with some vodka. Each container has about 10 reeds in which get used in a rather random fashion - not strictly rotated. There tends to be a mixture of makes and strengths which get used depending on mouthpiece, musical style and mood. They get discarded when they look particularly cruddy. I rarely ditch one because it no longer works, although, if high altissimo is required then failure up there can be a good reason to bin it. I’ve absolutely no idea how long a particular reed might last except I’m sure that some have been in there for over 5 years, possibly as much as 10.
Reed prep is zero and as for adjustment… well, I’ve got some drying paint that urgently needs inspecting.

 

[skeller047]

I’m in the rotate corner myself. I have dabbled with the “play one till it dies” approach, but the difficulty adjusting to a new reed when the old one dies sent me back to the rotation method.

I agree with Alan’s friend about the reasons why rotation is good. Additionally, every day is different for me - the weather, the venue, my energy level, etc. So a reed may behave differently depending on the time and place, why not accept that and practice adjusting to minor differences every time you play? I am responsible for my sound, so I concentrate on doing the things that make it work.

That said, I do adjust every reed, mainly for balance, but occasionally one is too hard so it gets taken down a peg. I do this right away when I first take it out of the box, then it goes into the reed case and into regular rotation. I try to make all my reeds play alike, but of course none of them are exactly the same. Vive la difference!

 

[MikeMorrell]

Update: shock and horror yesterday morning (at 08;30) when I discovered that my 'Nr. 1 reed' was 'missing' from its 'Nr. 1 spot' in my reed case. No idea why. And no, I don't rotate reeds. Although I have a couple of (used) 'back-up reeds' in my reed case, I decided to break out a new one.

So I unpacked a brand new reed, left it to soak in water for 5 - 10 minutes while I drank my coffee, put it on my PTT mpc and it played perfectly for 2 1/2 hours. I was delighted!

Later, this got me thinking more about 'reeds'. As a relative beginner (1-5 years), I learned things like:
- there were slight differences between reeds in the same box (of 5)
- 1 or 2 reeds in a box probably sounded good and played well 'out of the box'; the other 3 would probably need some adjustment (so I learned the basics of 'reed adjustment')
- gradually 'breaking in' reeds by initially playing them for short times and extending the playing time over the course of a week or 2
- 'grading' reeds with criteria like 'Good' (to go), 'too soft/thin, too hard/stiff, too 'dull' (sounding), etc. ; these 'grades' would then form the direction of any 'adjustments'
- and ... regularly rotating reeds 🙂 .

These lessons were valid and helpful back then. And I'm sure that they are still valid and helpful today! But I gradually gave up these 'good practices'. Unless I (very occasionally) come across a new brand reed that - however I play it - just doesn't sound good (enough) or play easily (enough).

So what's changed?
For one thing, I watched a VanDoren YouTube video some years ago that explained the differences between Van Doren 'Jazz reeds'. I'd previously always bought the VanDoren V16 'jazz reed' at a local store. Mainly because it was the only 'jazz reed' that they sold. In the video, it turned out that the V16 was the 'stiffest' jazz reed. That explained why it took me so long to make these 'playable' - even with some adjustment. After watching the video, I switched to 'Java red' reeds and have played these pretty much 'out-of-the box' ever since. They just suit me.

For another, a sadly deceased previous café member - @jbtsax - once posted that whenever he heard his sax students 'squeaking' on new reeds, he'd tell them to go soak their reeds in water for 5 minutes. Problem solved. I've always followed his advice on this. And it works for me.

I've posted this link several times on the café but (Professor Emeritus) Steven Mauk's essay on 'Reed Placement & Adjustment' made a huge impact on me when I first read it. And adopting his 'tips' (and the principles behind them) in practice has made a huge difference to the way I still set up my reeds on the mpc's (and sometimes the lig too).
Professor Mauk's essay basically taught me to 'adjust', through reed (and occasionally lig) placement, on the mpc for small differences between individual reeds. Were talking differences of +/- a mm. or less. But I've found - through Mauk's essay- that such a small 'micro-adjustment' can make a big difference in 'playability'. And especially (in my case on tenor)
in the range of notes (from low B/Bes to high E/F) that I can comfortably play and sustain.

Yes, there are of course limits. But I can comfortably play a (stiffer) new reed just by making sure it only just seals. I can play a 'thinner' reed (with more wear) just by extending the reed just over the mpc. I can adjust the lig to give the reed a bit more (or a bit less) room to vibrate.

(Semi-)professional sax players probably already know this kind of stuff. But for me - as an amateur - it was a real eye-opener! It's perhaps not for everyone, but Mauk's short essay made a big difference to me. For years, I've spent at least a couple of minutes before each rehearsal/concert finely adjusting my reed position until I'm satisfied that I've hit the 'sweet spot' for this reed on this mpc.

I include (as always) a link to Steven Mauk's downloadable list of documents at Ithica University Saxophone Society's website. Mauk was 'Professor of Saxophone'' in the School of Music' at Ithica for many years before his retirement.