Recording Recording in my little studio, AEA R84 and Schoeps CCM 41

[Pete Thomas]

I may consider a valve (tube) preamp for curiosity's sake.

I would recommend the Presonus Bluetube in that case. It's not at all expensive so it's great for learning what you can do with driven or over-driven valves.

 

[progger]

Reading your ( @progger & @Pete Thomas ) write-ups of the U47 valve microphone, this is the first I've heard of it...

It's probably the most fetishized and worshipped of vintage mics in the whole global recording industry, so it has plenty of clones... originals can fetch $30,000 or more, particularly if the original capsule, transformer, and (crucially) tube are still in good shape (the tube alone can go for like $5000 if it's original). I'm luckily not that big a fan, I've recorded on a great one and didn't do anything special for me, I actually prefer the modern U87ai for my personal taste!

John, the M49 is a phenomenal mic, my personal favorite "fancy Neumann tube" specimen. But I'd personally rather just get a Gefell or Austrian Audio for a whole bunch of reasons. Capsule quality is crucial with a mic, and there's no compromise in that regard with either of those companies, they're top-tier.

In fact, if I were gonna get a tube mic nowadays, it would probably be the Gefell M 990. It's only cardioid, but that's fine for saxophonists most of the time, and design-wise it's kind of like a cross between an M49 and a U67. With top-tier Gefell capsule quality (and owned by the Neumann family, funny enough).

If I had insane money lying around, I'd definitely get a Neumann M49 reissue. And, why not, a U67 too. By all accounts, Neumann has done a phenomenal job with those.

 

[Pete Effamy]

If I had insane money lying around, I'd definitely get a Neumann M49 reissue. And, why not, a U67 too. By all accounts, Neumann has done a phenomenal job with those.

It’s worth reading Klaus Heyne’s views on this.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I'm luckily not that big a fan, I've recorded on a great one and didn't do anything special for me, I actually prefer the modern U87ai for my personal taste!

Nor me, after various sessions with valve and FET U47s. But that is why when kitting out my ideal studio I went for the C12VR which really is a mic to die for. (I do have one for sale so you can actually stay alive). Ignore the Neumann hype which is also why we also wnet for Oktavas.

I may just hang on tothe CV12VR as they've now started going for silly money. The great thing (apart from the sound) is the 9 polar patterns. Been incredibly useful for me over the years.

 

[progger]

I may just hang on tothe CV12VR as they've now started going for silly money. The great thing (apart from the sound) is the 9 polar patterns. Been incredibly useful for me over the years.

If it's one that was made in Vienna, you should probably hang onto it for a while... I'm not sure if you're familiar with the recent history of AKG, but they were sold first to Harmon, and then to Samsung. Samsung decided it would be a good idea to close the Vienna plant and move everything to either Eastern Europe or China so they could maximize profits on the legendary brand they'd acquired. Nothing against Eastern Europe or China, but that was a sad move, if you ask me, and AKG quality has reportedly declined quite a bit since then.

I have a pair of the Austrian Audio OC818s, that company consists of the veteran AKG engineers who quit after that nonsense went down and bought the Vienna facility for themselves! And I'm very pleased with them. I use them mainly for recording clarinet and flute, they're fantastic for that, nice linear midrange with a little bit of extra high-end clarity but always very smooth, not harsh... like the C12 is supposed to be. (Clean circuit, no tube or transformer, but I'm ok with that.)

I'm still a massive Neumann fan, though, they always just sound "right" to me (the flagships anyway, like 49/67/87). I'll probably be keeping my u87 for the rest of my life, it seems to be just the right fit for my taste and the work I do.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Nothing against Eastern Europe or China, but that was a sad move, if you ask me, and AKG quality has reportedly declined quite a bit since then.

Thanks will look into that. Ironic though that in spite of the "cheap Chinese crap" bias against China, the manufacturers there are, and have been, among the world leaders in electronics, be it phones or space rockets.

 

[progger]

Thanks will look into that. Ironic though that in spite of the "cheap Chinese crap" bias against China, the manufacturers there are, and have been, among the world leaders in electronics, be it phones or space rockets.

Agreed, and there are some specific Chinese manufacturers for whom I have tons of respect. On the better-known side, sE make some genuinely good professional mics. On the lesser-known, but potentially more influential, side is 3U Audio, an outfit run by a Chinese-Australian engineer who makes great-quality capsules and is largely responsible for improving the price/quality ratio in mics for the past couple decades. He doesn't market his own line of mics very much but they're excellent, I love mine and it compares surprisingly favorably to my Neumann (nearly ten times more expensive).

For AKG, it's more about "giant corporation cutting corners to maximize profits" than anything. The Vienna facility happened to be a casualty of that, and I think AKG's veteran engineers leaving and starting other cool companies (Austrian Audio and Lewitt) speaks volumes about how Samsung botched things.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Just out of interest I have a recording I do of the same bass what I sold John:

 

[john_dikeman]

Just out of interest I have a recording I do of the same bass what I sold John:

Yes! I think you sent this to me ages ago but great to hear it again!
Do you have any more recordings of the bass?
And, do you happen to remember how you recorded that?

And for a little extra fun Harry Gold on the same bass.

View: https://youtu.be/CKdxiqkhq4I?t=894

 

[ghostler]

The following showed up today on Musician's Friend:

Yamaha Hexrack II Curved Tube

Get the guaranteed best price on Rack Clamps & Components like the Yamaha Hexrack II Curved Tube at Musician's Friend. Get a low price and free shipping on thousands of items.

www.musiciansfriend.com

This is still a bit more than I would be willing to expend as a pensioner, but it does illustrate that there is an active market of users demanding these.

 

[LostCircuits]

Just out of interest I have a recording I do of the same bass what I sold John:

Bass is just too much fun!

 

[progger]

The following showed up today on Musician's Friend:

View attachment 30410

Yamaha Hexrack II Curved Tube

Get the guaranteed best price on Rack Clamps & Components like the Yamaha Hexrack II Curved Tube at Musician's Friend. Get a low price and free shipping on thousands of items.

www.musiciansfriend.com

This is still a bit more than I would be willing to expend as a pensioner, but it does illustrate that there is an active market of users demanding these.

I mean, that's a hell of a lot cheaper than $30k! And Warm gear sounds pretty good, particularly for the price. But unfortunately they're not super reliable, I have a friend who bought lots of their gear for his studio and nearly all of it needed repair much sooner than it should have.

 

[ghostler]

I have a friend who bought lots of their gear for his studio and nearly all of it needed repair much sooner than it should have.

Sounds like to reduce costs for affordability, they / their contracted manufacturer may have opted for cheaper electronic components?

This seems common

in today's world unfortunately. I'm seeing LED bulb electronics fail in less than a year, even though bulb had adequate venting in light fixture. (This is the common "canned" reply - inadequate venting.) I feel I am back to incandescent reliability.

Maytag went bankrupt with their new water saving Neptune washer due to cheapened electronic and inferior electromechanical parts. It is now a Whirlpool brand. (We had one.)

Thanks for the skinny on it.

Case in point, I have purchased and donated budget wireless hand mikes for the Salvation Army's chapel services. Under $100 US, they work fine, mostly handled by volunteers.

More expensive mikes break as easy as cheap ones when dropped. Currently on a 2 year life cycle track record, we're on our 4th set now.

 

[ghostler]

Just out of interest I have a recording I do of the same bass what I sold John:

Love the strong deep classical jazz bass / bari sound, a real ear catcher for the audience, bet they loved every minute it.

It reminds me that

I wouldn't mind filling in for a missing tuba in a mariachi band with my low A bari. I've learned people really don't care if it doesn't quite sound "traditional", they enjoy it if it sounds good. That's all that really matters. 😉

 

[john_dikeman]

So, I happened to play a gig in Amsterdam last night with a friend that's built all the stuff I've been checking out. He built the Mic&Mod 87 and 67 copies, a Beesneez ribbon, and the Sound Skulptur tube pre, compressor and eq. He was super happy with all of it.
I think you can hear it all on his albums... From and to Infinity, by Boi Akih

It was interesting what he said about the pre. He said on single inputs he couldn't really hear a difference, but when he tried getting a full mix together it made a difference in how voices came out. FWIW.
Anyway, it was cool to talk to someone who had built that stuff. Kind of renewed my interest in building a mic at some point.

 

[john_dikeman]

Had a solo gig in a church so I finally had a chance to try my ribbon in a room with a lot of sound. The guy organizing the gig put up a few mics as well so I thought I'd post an excerpt with some of the mics individually and combined.

So, this is the Schoeps CCM 41, AEA R84, a pair of Rode SDCs as room mics, not sure which ones, I'll check. And there was also an AKG and Rode mic on stage pointed at the floor thrown in for the "everything" track.

https://soundcloud.com/gj-dikeman%2Fsets%2Fchurch-excerpt

View: https://soundcloud.com/gj-dikeman/sets/church-excerpt?si=7eaca436ee73489b805c0d8a72f60582&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

 

[LostCircuits]

I like the Schoeps better than the AEA

 

[progger]

If I were a microphone, I would never want to be compared to a Schoeps. 😁

 

[john_dikeman]

For sure, the Schoeps is the one! I got the ribbon to compliment the schoeps, never imagined it replacing it. Except maybe with sopranino...
But I'm also using it differently, placed much further away, kind of as a room Mic.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Just packing to move and discovered my long lost Oktava matched pair in a drawer. My replcement many years ago for a pair of Neumann KM84s as these were better for stuff like acoustic guitars and harps.

As as soon I've moved into the new place I might have a go with them on the saxophone.