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Re-lacquering a neck...

DavidUK

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I've acted on Colin's suggestion here: http://cafesaxophone.com/threads/sa...stein-quality-issues.11076/page-6#post-176766

Nitromors didn't touch the BW lacquer so I had to painstakingly remove with 800 then 1200 grit fine emery paper. Still have to polish it up before lacquering but I tested a little area with some clear spray lacquer to see how the colour would look. As suspected, the newly polished brass is slightly lighter than the rest of the sax (e.g. the octave key, as below) as I think the original lacquer is slightly tinted....

P9155203.jpg


Any suggestions how I can more closely match the original finished colour?

I've thought of doing the final polishing then waiting for the brass to darken over time, catching it at the right moment, and then lacquering. But it may not darken uniformly.

I could get the neck silver plated, then lacquer it, as a "blingy" custom finish, but that makes it non-original, will cost me, and perhaps make it harder to sell on, which is what is going to happen to it once re-finished.

What would you do? Answers from professional and amateur techs alike are welcomed.

PS. my cat Merlin wanted to "play" too....

P9155205.jpg


:)
 

Colin the Bear

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It might be my monitor or it may be the photo but I can't see a colour difference. Perhaps the lacquer will darken with the passage of time. I'm sure a polished crook that is a relacquered a slightly different shade looks much better than a corroded crook in original condition. Nice cats
 

jbtsax

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I deal with this all the time in my saxophone restoration work. You are correct that "time" while unlacquered works. If you are in a hurry, there are a couple of things you could try. Boiling the neck in water will darken the color a bit. If you need more, there is an excellent product called Jax Gold Finish. I use it all the time either full strength or diluted depending upon the shade of dark gold desired. Another way is to use a "liver of sulphur" solution, but I have found that it is harder to control and get the desired outcome. Any of these can be undone by rebuffing or re-polishing because just the outer surface is affected. Then you can start over.

Most repair techs in the U.S. use Nickolas Spray Lacquer. A tip I learned recently is to heat the can in a cup of hot water before spraying. The lacquer applies much more evenly at the warmer temperature. You can also heat the part if you like.
 

DavidUK

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Thanks JBT. Photo doesn't really show the minor difference very well.

By the way, the lacquer I'm using is a general cellulose spray from Wilko not some specialist two pack epoxy. I'm hoping it will be tough enough for the job but also worried about it adhering to a polished surface - normally you'd give an item a "key" by leaving some surface scratching. Not sure how that will work...

Don't think Jax is available in the UK but I'm happy to wait for it to colour up. I've waited ten months for BW to replace it so what's a few more weeks!
 

jbtsax

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Thanks JBT. Photo doesn't really show the minor difference very well.

By the way, the lacquer I'm using is a general cellulose spray from Wilko not some specialist two pack epoxy. I'm hoping it will be tough enough for the job but also worried about it adhering to a polished surface - normally you'd give an item a "key" by leaving some surface scratching. Not sure how that will work...

Don't think Jax is available in the UK but I'm happy to wait for it to colour up. I've waited ten months for BW to replace it so what's a few more weeks!

The lacquer should adhere just fine so long as you have thoroughly degreased the surface. Two coats is generally recommended for added protection. Be sure to follow the instructions on the can and be mindful of the temperature.
 

DavidUK

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The lacquer should adhere just fine so long as you have thoroughly degreased the surface. Two coats is generally recommended for added protection. Be sure to follow the instructions on the can and be mindful of the temperature.
Understood. I always get carried away spraying things and then get runs. Too little and it looks speckled. Too near or far also problematical. Always remember to shake well though.
 

jbtsax

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Understood. I always get carried away spraying things and then get runs. Too little and it looks speckled. Too near or far also problematical. Always remember to shake well though.
Same here. Heating the spray can before you spray makes a big difference in how the lacquer spreads and lays on the surface. I haven't had one job I had to do over since I learned this trick. I hang the part to be sprayed and move the can back and forth spraying 360 degrees.
 

Justin Chune

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I used to dye clear cellulose with shoe dye. That was a very long time ago.

Jim.
 

Pete Thomas

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I could get the neck silver plated, then lacquer it, as a "blingy" custom finish, but that makes it non-original, will cost me, and perhaps make it harder to sell on, which is what is going to happen to it once re-finished.


:)

It may well make it easier to sell on. I don't think non original finish will affect the resale value, it's not a collectors' item like a MKVI or similar.

If it was me I'd go for bare bras.
 
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jbtsax

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Seriously, the difficulty with spraying with a "tinted" lacquer is that the coating must be perfectly even throughout or there will be darker areas where the lacquer goes on thicker. In my experience, it is much easier to chemically darken the brass and spray a clear coat.
 

DavidUK

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Five days after taking the lacquer off and the colour is now indistinguishable from the octave key.
I'll remove my test lacquer patch over the weekend, polish it up again, then leave it a further week before lacquering. At that point a wipe over with a lint free cloth should remove any dust particles but not remove any intended discolouration. Fingers crossed....
 

Pete Thomas

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Five days after taking the lacquer off and the colour is now indistinguishable from the octave key.
I'll remove my test lacquer patch over the weekend, polish it up again, then leave it a further week before lacquering. At that point a wipe over with a lint free cloth should remove any dust particles but not remove any intended discolouration. Fingers crossed....

I would polish it before lacquering. If you leave for 5 days it may get more minute muck on it than wiping with a cloth will remove.

OTOH, it's only a neck - easy to redo so maybe you will be lucky - however I would remove any (even slight) tarnishing of the metal.
 

DavidUK

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Catch 22. If I polish it the colour will be too light again so I'd have to wait another week to darken. I need to leave it in the open air to tarnish, rather than in a plastic bag, so I'm hoping I can dust it off sufficiently before lacquering.
 

MontyMac

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Just taking the opportunity to shout "ME TOO, ME TOO!
GrassiNeck NewCorkLacquerStripped.jpg
I had previously posted some pics of the extension to the neck that had been performed at some point in this Grassi Bari's life. It all actually started with replacing the torn cork. Only took 3 attempts. Amazing how good cork and contact cement from MusicMedic can improve the chances of success for a newby.
I did use an unconventional item in bringing the new cork down to size. I found some larger, thicker, foamcore dual grit figernail type emery boards that worked very well. Especially in bringing the part closest to the pip down to size and keeping the cork flat across the middle that has a more hourglass profile due to the splice.
GrassiNeck NewCorkLacquerStripped.jpg
The existing lacquer had enough wear and scratches, it was just better to strip it all off. I used #0000 Scotchbrite for the whole procedure, including cutting strips to do the final ragging buff after the material was well worn. There are a few scratches left, as you can see, but I'll get those out after I've made a bench peg and can properly finish it.
In the interum, I applied a couple of coats of FW1 cleaning polish that has Carnuba wax in it to seal the bare brass.
Here's a pic of the extension just for completness.
GrassiNeckSplice.jpg
 
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