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R n B

jeremyjuicewah

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Been trying to get to Guisborough RnB club last few times I've been in UK but havent managed it yet. I have been thinking and it seems to me that RnB means different things to different people. Not at all sure how I would define it, how would you describe it? I have heard Route 66 described as great RnB, but whos version? Serious question this. Been lurking around RnB venues on and off for over forty years but I couldnt tell a martian what it is.
 

Nick Wyver

noisy
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5,949
it seems to me that RnB means different things to different people.
Indeed.

If we ignore modern RnB (something I'm only too happy to do) then, to me, it means up tempo blues with a bit of a rock feel. You can dance to it. Perhaps veering off towards soul a bit. I'm never too happy with musical genre descriptions - there's always too much overlap.
 

jeremyjuicewah

Well-Known Member
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1,890
Ok we can kick out modern RnB cos I imagine its as bad as modern hip-hop, we can dismiss Nat King Cole and Sweets Edison, and we have a sort of blues with a bit of red and yellow around it, easily understood by even the dumbest of Martians. I get Mojo and Hoochie Kootchie. So probably the Stones with Route 66 too.
Thanks all
Mike
 

Jules

Formerly known as "nachoman"
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4,621
Hm..to me R&B's something different (or, to be exact, the R&B I listen to, and play, regularly)! Original R&B, to me, is the borderline where big band tips over into rock & roll in the late 40s and 50s.. Louis Jordan, Big Joe Turner etc... Then again, its also the Yardbirds etc.....
 

Targa

Among the pigeons
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8,892
Like a lot of things it is undefinable, you just know it when you hear it.
If it sounds right it is right.
 

johnboy

Senior Member
Messages
1,179
Hm..to me R&B's something different (or, to be exact, the R&B I listen to, and play, regularly)! Original R&B, to me, is the borderline where big band tips over into rock & roll in the late 40s and 50s.. Louis Jordan, Big Joe Turner etc... Then again, its also the Yardbirds etc.....
Yes, but then Alex Harvey, Alexis Korner and bands of the early '60s arrived (reluctantly including the Graham Bond Organization). All spawned from the likes of Muddy Waters and Co. and rampant in the clubs!!!
Ah, those were the days :mrcool

John.
 

Sunray

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,708
Yes, but then Alex Harvey, Alexis Korner and bands of the early '60s arrived (reluctantly including the Graham Bond Organization). All spawned from the likes of Muddy Waters and Co. and rampant in the clubs!!!
Ah, those were the days :mrcool

John.
Ha ha John ...

I am surprised you remember that far back ... lmao View attachment 856
 

thomsax

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,799
After WWII the music changed. Smaller bands, combos, often replaced the big bands at the venueplaces. The oldtime R&B started in mid/late 40’s. Artists/bands like Joe Liggins, Jack McVea, Lionel Hampton, Tiny Grimes, Big Jay McNeely, Jackie Brenston, Professor Longhair, Hal Singer … played in a new way.

R&B was a more or less a ”black affair” but had also a huge impact on the white youth. You can trace the beat of Rock & Roll in the R&B. And the major instrument in R&B was the tenor saxophone. But the early organs and electric guitar could also be heard in R&B in the early 50’s.

There were R&B all over America:
Westcoast: Joe Liggins Orch, Maxwell Davis (ts) ….
Eastcoast: Practically most of the King recordlabel artists; Bill Doggett, Freddie King, Sonny Thompsson, King Curtis …
South: Prof Longhair, Dave Bartholomew, Tiny Grimes, Allen Toussaint, Fats Domino ….
North: Jackie Brenston, Howlin’ Wolf, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker…

For some months ago the UK magazine ”Mojo” had a good CD that came along with the magazine. The CD cover the the New Orleans soul and R&B. Personally I think the real R&B is from the south!

Thomas
 

johnboy

Senior Member
Messages
1,179
Ha ha John ...

I am surprised you remember that far back ... lmao View attachment 856
Hi Sunray.
Coo didn't I have some, playing "The Flamingo", "The Marquee","Club Norique", "The Crawdaddy Clubs" "Riki Tik" "Brave New World".
I could go on and on (often do!). Before that there were shows all over the South Coast, run by a guy called Reg Calvert (check him out on Wikipedia). In '57 I was still at school and getting £15 for 5 nights a week , playing in an instrumental band (a John Barry 7 cover band). A skilled man got £10 in those days :w00t:

See I did go on and on;}
 
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Sunray

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,708
Now what was I saying ?

Now I know how you could afford the high life you've led ... :mrcool

£15 a week in '57 - bloomin millionaire ... :welldone
 

Jules

Formerly known as "nachoman"
Messages
4,621
For some months ago the UK magazine ”Mojo” had a good CD that came along with the magazine. The CD cover the the New Orleans soul and R&B. Personally I think the real R&B is from the south!

Thomas
Curses- missed that one!
 

compound

Member
Messages
457
Hi johnboy,
Reading your post reminded me of all the clubs i did in the sixties, i take it most of your club's were down south, where mine were all north mainly Manchester and Cheshire. Mr Smiths, Twisted Wheel, Bodiga, Oasis, Heaven n Hell, Domino club, Bellvue.We played with some greats Little Richard, Chuck Berry, The Mersey Beats, Dave Berry and the Cruisers, The Peddlars, Chris Andrews, and we did the original Cavern Club twice, what a life , i was making about £25 for 5 or 6 nights, my apprentice wage was about £3 a week, great life but very hard work because i was drumming then, still am in fact. Here's to the good old day's. Rob.
 

jeremyjuicewah

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,890
Cripes John! If you were in a band in 57 I reckon you have playing for about 57 or 58 years? Is this a site record? Outstanding! Here am I about 18 months along, much to learn and nothing like that much time to do it in. I shall have to cheat, there must be a way.
 

johnboy

Senior Member
Messages
1,179
Hi johnboy,
Reading your post reminded me of all the clubs i did in the sixties, i take it most of your club's were down south, where mine were all north mainly Manchester and Cheshire. Mr Smiths, Twisted Wheel, Bodiga, Oasis, Heaven n Hell, Domino club, Bellvue.We played with some greats Little Richard, Chuck Berry, The Mersey Beats, Dave Berry and the Cruisers, The Peddlars, Chris Andrews, and we did the original Cavern Club twice, what a life , i was making about £25 for 5 or 6 nights, my apprentice wage was about £3 a week, great life but very hard work because i was drumming then, still am in fact. Here's to the good old day's. Rob.
Hi Compound,
The one's mentioned were all the main London clubs. The Reg Calvert one's with the "Rocking Leopard seven" :w00t: were all South Coast. Brighton to Pool and as far inland as Camberly. Great day's.

John.
 

johnboy

Senior Member
Messages
1,179
Cripes John! If you were in a band in 57 I reckon you have playing for about 57 or 58 years? Is this a site record? Outstanding! Here am I about 18 months along, much to learn and nothing like that much time to do it in. I shall have to cheat, there must be a way.
Hi J.J.,
I stopped playing at the end of '65, and went back to my day job in Portsmouth Dockyard (Electrical Fitter). It was do that, or wind up on drugs like the others in the band (The Crow(who?)). Two years later, they were all dead!!! Life on stage was fantastic but London can be very boring during the day.
I started playing again 3/4 years ago.

John.
 

johnboy

Senior Member
Messages
1,179
Yep, Reg and Smedley were partners in Radio Silver Sands, a Pirate radio station in the Thames estuary (one of the forts). The story goes that he caught Smedley with his wife, and in the ensuing row Reg got shot.
Taz might know all about Reg, as Reg had a doss house for bands in Rugby. But in the '50s he had a printing business in Southampton. He always wore a D.J. and bow tie to the gigs.
 
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