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Question:How do you play C/E chords?

PMason247

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Hi
As a soloist like us good saxophone players I'm often presented with a chord thats over another chord. Im looking at a chord sequence that has a bar with FM7/A and C/E.

But what am I thinking? Am I thinking FM7 followed by C... or A followed by E.

And backup theory would also be helpful!

Many thanks
 

rhysonsax

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The simple version is that /A tells the bass player what note (rather than chord) to play initially, so it's a FM7 chord with with A in the bass. The saxophone soloist would be playing to fit the FM7 but would expect to hear A instead of F from the bass player on the first beat.

Other people may have more insightful comments.

Rhys
 

AndyB

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What Rhys said and often the bass note of those slash chords (along with the roots of the normal chords) will outline a moving bassline that you might want to bring out. For example, like in the cliche minor drop chord progression as in songs like When A Man Loves A Woman, While My Guitar Gently Weeps, Something, Stairway to Heaven, etc.

So, you might use arpeggio spellings like the following to highlight the movement of A to E:
FM7/A = A E F
C/E = E G C
 
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mizmar

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Just to point out that slash chords on piano mean an inversion. But, as i understand it, they can then be understood in a more complex way..

Here's a chap on slash-chord steroids. Jazzers just can't leave well alone!
 

Tenor Viol

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Yeah, my understanding is it's telling those that need to know (e.g. bass player) that it's an inverted chord. So, C/E means a Cmaj chord, but start with E in the bass i.e. 1st inversion. Not relevant (directly) for the melody instrument.
 

Colin the Bear

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Fm7...F Ab C Eb. There's no A in it
Fm7/A not a thing to my mind
Fm7/Ab would be first inversion or Ab6.

C...C E G
C/E first inversion of C...E G C.

E G C add A for a C6 Am7
E G C add B for Em6

For saxophone it all depends on context. What comes before and what comes after.
Slash chords are often used in simply written arrangements, like Real books and guitar chord books to give direction to the bass player.
Saxophone in jazz will typically extend chords and add alternative harmony. Don't be limited to chord tones but be guided by them.
 

AndyB

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Fm7...F Ab C Eb. There's no A in it
Fm7/A not a thing to my mind
Fm7/Ab would be first inversion or Ab6.

C...C E G
C/E first inversion of C...E G C.

E G C add A for a C6 Am7
E G C add B for Em6

For saxophone it all depends on context. What comes before and what comes after.
Slash chords are often used in simply written arrangements, like Real books and guitar chord books to give direction to the bass player.
Saxophone in jazz will typically extend chords and add alternative harmony. Don't be limited to chord tones but be guided by them.
FM7 = F major 7
Fm7 = F minor 7
 

Colin the Bear

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F = F major = FAC
Fmaj7, sometimes Fj = F major7 = FACE
F7 = Fseven = FACEb
Fm7 = F minor 7 = FAbCEb
Fm7b5 sometimes called F half diminished. FAbCbD
Conventions for clarity and to avoid confusion.
I'm easily confused. ;)
 

Pete Thomas

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I have seen people use capital M7 for major 7, I think it's a very bad idea as it can soo easily be mistaken for a small m. Can be OK when printed but not so good with handwriting, so I'd advise avoiding it.
 
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AndyB

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I have seen people use capital M7 for major 7, I think it's a very bad idea as it can soo easily be mistaken for a small m. Can be OK when printed but not so good with handwriting, so I'd advise avoiding it.
Pete, that is how college-level music theory is (or was) taught here in the states.

C Major triad + natural 7th = CMM7 (or CM7 for short, sometimes C7M)
C Major triad + flat 7th = CMm7 (or C7 for short)
C Minor triad + natural 7th = CmM7
C Minor triad + flat 7th = Cmm7 (or Cm7 for short)

I still see it a lot in ASCII-format music lead sheets downloaded from the Internet.

But music schools such as Berklee probably use the jazz shorthand (delta and minus) today.
 

Pete Thomas

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C Major triad + natural 7th = CMM7 (or CM7 for short, sometimes C7M)

Well I have taught college level (and post grad seminars) but would never ever use that kind of confusing symbol.

CMm7 - I mean why would you do that when we already have C7?
 

Pete Thomas

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Just to point out that slash chords on piano mean an inversion. But, as i understand it, they can then be understood in a more complex way..
Exactly, but it may be more accurate to say that they can mean an inversion but could also mean a non chord note in the bass.

So for example Gm7/Bb is an inversion of Gm7 because Bb is a chord note that is in the bass.

But Gm7/C has a non-chord note in the bass, because there is no C in Gm7.

Although in this case it is a possibly shortcut or lazy way to write C11, because that is the actual chord those notes spell out.

I just noticed on the Wikipedia page about slash chords, Ab/A.

Now that made me really scratch my head until I realised it is just AØ maj7. It's a chord that can sound really horrible or really cool depending on the voicing.

And fair enough, it looks maybe more complicated but at least it gives you the chord's function (as with C11 rather than Gm7/C)
 
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AndyB

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Well I have taught college level (and post grad seminars) but would never ever use that kind of confusing symbol.

CMm7 - I mean why would you do that when we already have C7?
Fair enough. But it is a systematic way to notate the quality of the triad and the quality of the 7th for theoretical music analysis. And I suppose the character set for printing textbooks by wood block was limiting back when I took music theory.

I do still see this notation for major 7 chords online:

pic1.PNG


pic2.PNG
 
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rhysonsax

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Fair enough. But it is a systematic way to notate the quality of the triad and the quality of the 7th for theoretical music analysis. And I suppose the character set for printing textbooks by wood block was limiting back when I took music theory.

I do still see this notation online:

View attachment 19216

I'm not understanding.

The example seems to use standard symbols for jazz chords. It does use the M7 for major 7 chords, but that is fairly common. I'm not seeing Mm7 and never have elsewhere - I have probably led a sheltered life.

Rhys
 

AndyB

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I'm not understanding.

The example seems to use standard symbols for jazz chords. It does use the M7 for major 7 chords, but that is fairly common. I'm not seeing Mm7 and never have elsewhere - I have probably led a sheltered life.

Rhys
Rhys, I meant specifically M7 for major 7ths as in the OP. However, I do occasionally see CmM7 instead of Cm(maj7) too.
 

Pete Thomas

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I do still see this notation for major 7 chords online:
So do I, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. It is so easy to mistake M for m when looking at quickly.

I do occasionally see CmM7 instead of Cm(maj7) too.
Likewise, I have seen that, it's even more of a bad idea IMO. (or imo)
I'm not seeing Mm7 and never have elsewhere
Nor me. Neither that one nor MM7 makes any sense to me.
 

AndyB

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So do I, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. It is so easy to mistake M for m when looking at quickly.


Likewise, I have seen that, it's even more of a bad idea IMO. (or imo)

Nor me. Neither that one nor MM7 makes any sense to me.
Guys, I just showed MM7, Mm7 and mm7 as the origins of the M7, 7 and m7 shorthand notations as per music theory classes that I took in the ice age.

I don't know where the M7 and m7 notation could have come from otherwise, other than short for MM7 and mm7. And that leaves 7 for Mm as not one of the above so no letter with it. Then mM or m(maj7) is the odd man out since it is far less common.
 
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