Public Liability Insurance - What do gigging bands need ?

[rhysonsax]

I'm trying to arrange a gig for our big band as part of the Local Council's "Music in the Park" series this summer.

They want to see a copy of our Public Liability Insurance certificate, but up to now we have never had one.

I suppose that someone could be injured in the frenzy of dancing to our beautiful music, or more likely trip over a cable.

We only gig a few times a year and even then, usually for charity or a nominal fee. So we don't want to spend a lot of money.

Can anyone advise what we need, where to get it and how much the premium would be ?

Thanks

Rhys

 

[half diminished]

Rhys

PI/PL insurance is a must if you do any sort of paid work IMO because the implications these days of getting sued are huge.

Dunno what everyone else does though, not that I ply in public myself.

 

[jadoube]

Rhys,

Years ago I had a similar problem - the local council would not let us rent their playing field for an office football outing without PL insurance.

I think I just rang a broker. Wasn't astronomical to get cover for a single day /venue, less than a quid a player. (We're talking decades ago so allow for inflation)

On the other hand we had few spectators, your band will draw the crowds so may cost more.



Please let us know when the gig is, I'm local and would like to hear it.

John

 

[AndyG]

Hi
As an electrician I have to have minimum £2 million cover and it costs about £75 a year, so if I do something causing injury to another person or cause damage to property im covered.
I dont know how much it would be for a band, but would imagine its possibly about the same amount of cover (maybe check with the council...some may require more), and pretty much for the same reason.

I use a broker for mine who may be able to help
www.fleetplan.co.uk

another place to try is www.assure-uk.co.uk

 

[Pete Thomas]

The premium may be more than the cost of one MU membership. Which gives you public liability, instrument insurance and free legal advice.

 

[rhysonsax]

Thanks for that - it is quite timely as the gig is 20th June in Farnham.

I emailed the MU but while they do insurance for individuals, they don't seem to for amateur groups. I contacted someone from 'Herd of Sax' who played the same event last year and they put me on to 'Making Music' who are an organisation for amateur music makers. Membership and Public Liability Insurance seem to be pretty reasonable, so that is the route I am going down now. About £50 subscription and £50 for decent insurance.

Rhys

 

[Nick Wyver]

I would have thought that, if the Council's organizing the gig, then it's their responsibility for the insurance. I've been gigging for nearly 40 years now and as far as I can remember no one has ever asked for any of the bands to have PLI. I'm an MU member, but most of the musicians I play with aren't.

 

[Moz]

I would have thought that, if the Council's organizing the gig, then it's their responsibility for the insurance. I've been gigging for nearly 40 years now and as far as I can remember no one has ever asked for any of the bands to have PLI. I'm an MU member, but most of the musicians I play with aren't.

I would agree with Nick. Plus, why not tell them you are willing to play at their gig if they can show you their public liability insurance, can they cover you against accidents at their site?

On a rather down-beat note: it is so sad that this sort of crap even has to be considered. So long as reasonable precautions have been taken -- no falling masonry, no exposed wires, no loose lions etc. -- I think people attending any event should have to take out their own insurance (or not if they are willing to take the 'risk' that they might die listening to a band!!)). I wonder if personal injury solicitors take out insurance against people like me finally cracking and stuffing their briefs where the sun don't shine!? Parasites, all of them. Rant over.

Mart

 

[Nick Wyver]

Spoke too bleedin' soon didn't I. In order to play at the Hop Festival in Faversham this year we have to have PLI. Never have in the past. I wonder what's changed. Bastard council.

 

[zootsaxenberger]

Spoke too bleedin' soon didn't I. In order to play at the Hop Festival in Faversham this year we have to have PLI. Never have in the past. I wonder what's changed. Bastard council.

I seem to remember that we had to go down the PLI route when we played the Hop Festival a few years ago, and then the guy in charge stepped down it didn't seem to matter when someone else organised it, however the original organiser has now taken back control and hey presto everyone needs PLI again!

 

[Profusia]

Late to the party here. Did you find a good policy in the end Rhys? Can anyone recommend a particular insurer. My band has just started gigging and 2 of the venues are insisting on seeing a PLI certificate. One of them is asking for £5m cover.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Late to the party here. Did you find a good policy in the end Rhys? Can anyone recommend a particular insurer. My band has just started gigging and 2 of the venues are insisting on seeing a PLI certificate. One of them is asking for £5m cover.

I would recommend join the Musicians union,it will be useful plus the free instruments insurance and the PLI.

EDIT: just noticed I said that in my earlier post.

 

[ArtyLady]

Like Pete.... I'm also with the MU, and I'm covered for all aspects of my musical activities. (I did take out extra paid cover for my Yani though as the instrument cover only goes up to 2k unspecified). I presume that PL cover only covers me individually at a gig not the rest of the band unless they have individual insurance?

Also as an aside - If a venue asked me for a certificate I assume it would be a very well paid gig

 

[MandyH]

we had the same request last year, for the same reason - a bands in the park performance.
After some research, we decided the easiest and cheapest way was to join Making Music.

I think we pay about £110 a year to cover all sorts of aspects of playing, not just the PL insurance.

Elsewhere we were quoted £45 a head - with 15 of us in our band (Saxophone Choir) that was rather steep!

 

[rhysonsax]

Making Music for the big band, insurance costs pretty much as Mandy says above.

For the covers / function band I play in we got 12 months insurance costing £157.50 from www.yourinsurance.co.uk Seems to be pretty good.

Rhys

 

[Tenor Viol]

The reason for this nonsense is that once upon a time councils' own insurance covered everyone. Then the bean counters said they could save money by only insuring themselves...

The simplest answer is to join Making Music and take out their PLI - they have a tiered fee structure,so a small group all-in won't be much more than £100 for everything, which is I think what my chamber choir pays (the choral society with 100 mebers pays around £300).

 

[Profusia]

I would recommend join the Musicians union,it will be useful plus the free instruments insurance and the PLI.

EDIT: just noticed I said that in my earlier post.

I did have a look at the MU briefly. As far as I could see it would cost £195 but looked as if that was per individual. I might have that wrong as didn't have time to investigate fully while at work.

Policies for a band seem to range from about £75 upwards depending on number of band members, amount of cover, excess, and probably all sorts of differences in the policy wording.

I'd like a policy that is flexible enough to allow band members to change and deps to be used.

One I've now come across comes as part of membership of AmpBand which you can join as a band and name your members and deps and gives you £10m of cover. You can also change their names if people leave and are replaced etc. The price varies depending on how many people you name but looks like it would cost us £89 for a total of about 8 or 9 people. What I'd like to know though is whether anyone has tried them, heard of them, have any experience of them?

 

[Profusia]

Had a quick look at Making Music. As far as I can see there's an annual subscription fee for a band (or individual) of £72 to be a member if income from music is no more than £7,200pa (goes up from there).
Then you have to get a quote for insurance. Cheapest starts at £40 but for that your band has to have a "Charitable Constitution" and only pay receipted expenses to its members, and not be profit making as far as I can make out. Size of band may also come into it. If you want to share fees you are supposed to take a different kind of membership and will be quoted more for insurance. This might still be a good deal for bands who want more than just Public Liability insurance or for those acting as non-profit bands working for charitable ends. But if AmpBand is what it says it is, it sounds better to me on the surface for semi-pro/pro bands that just want public liability insurance and that keep turnover below the VAT limit (one of AmpBand's criteria). Just my quick assessment after a whirlwind look at the two so open to correction if anyone has better info.

 

[joolsyboywonder]

Just a note on PLI - Back in the early 90's I played a gig with a band I played in with occasionally, in pub that had 2 levels. The top level had a balcony where bands set up. While we were playing the first set, a speaker vibrated off the stack went over the balcony and crashed onto the floor below. It was only by luck that no one was killed. Had it have been the second set, more people would have been dancing where it fell.
It turned out that the guy who set the speakers up hadn't to put 2 bolts in properly.

 

[Colin the Bear]

I've just been talking to a guy who is usualy at the thursday night trad session but I didn't see him this week. He was there when the band were setting up. There were 3 deps for a six piece band and while they were setting up one of the speakers on its stand tumbled onto him and knocked him out. He was whisked off to hospital and the blood was cleaned up before I arrived for the guest spot second set. Cracking black eye he had. He says he'll sit at the back next week and was more upset about missing the gig. Not a thought about suing. Old school.