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M/Pieces - Ligs PPT Ligature recommendations

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
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Can anyone recommend a lig that works well on the PPT?

Have been suffering a lot from squeaks using a Rovner dark 2R. However it leaves the reed very loose at the tip end of the table. Tried some packing on Chris R's suggestion, and it helped but is not a satisfactory solution.

Comparison with other mouthpieces showed the mouthpiece has a lot more taper than other types along the lenght of the table. Typically the other pieces averaged a 10mm difference in circumference between one end of the lig and the other, but the ppt is about 15mm. This difference is too much for the Rovner to accomodate, even screwing it up really tight. My 2 screw ligs won't take this up either.
 

Pete Thomas

Chief of Stuff
Commercial Café Supporter
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Can anyone recommend a lig that works well on the PPT?
I use either a Rovner 2R standard or Evo 2R or very cheap generic metal 2 screw. I haven't come across the problems you mention except with some other 2 screws (I think I mention that in the instruction manual).

The Evo works straight off, the 2R needed a little while to bed down. To hep this process you could try soaking it in hot water then quickly put it on and tighten while still warm - this might help the fabric mold itself to the contour, which I am aware is a bit more tapered than some other mouthpieces.

I haven't tried one myself but I heard from one customer that a vandoren Optimum fits very well.
 

Chris98

Senior Member
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1,076
Hi Kev,

I'm not too convinced by my ligature situation either, the Rovner light (L8) which apparently is the same as the Dark (R2) but with a strip cut out of the center, is tight at the back and loose at the front. As you know I'm using a shim for the moment but it's not an ideal situation. I'm also tightening up quite a bit in the hope the back strip will give a bit but I'm not holding out much hope.

Pete, I've got a Optimum ligature and again it's nice and tight at the back but has a gap at the front, not a great fit.

I'm truly loving my new PPT, it's great! I can only think of two niggling issues with it, one being the need to find the right ligature. If you say the EVO is the way to go then I'll try and track one down apparently it's been superseded by the StarSeries:
STAR SERIES Ligature | Rovner™ Products

All the best,

Chris
 
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kevgermany

kevgermany

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Thanks Pete, Like Chris, I found the Evo's been superseded.

Sorry Chris, got your name wrong. Was mixing the lig model and your suffix...
 

Pete Thomas

Chief of Stuff
Commercial Café Supporter
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Pete, I've got a Optimum ligature and again it's nice and tight at the back but has a gap at the front, not a great fit.
This is odd as I've definitely had an email from a customer telling me it works well.

Anyway I take this seriously and will do some more research on this. I should have a good chance to try lots of ligs at Frankfurt next week.

The 2 screw I mentioned is available at my local shop, Woodwind & Bras Ltd, I'm not sure of the actual make and model number, will find out and report back.
 

Jules

Formerly known as "nachoman"
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A rovner light or an Eddie Daniels/Versa works fine on mine. By the way- Francois Louis' don't work at all- they slip off...
 
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kevgermany

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
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Anyway I take this seriously and will do some more research on this. I should have a good chance to try lots of ligs at Frankfurt next week.

The 2 screw I mentioned is available at my local shop, Woodwind & Bras Ltd, I'm not sure of the actual make and model number, will find out and report back.
Pete, thanks

Just for more background, I checked 3 different 2 screw ligs, all have a difference in circumference of about 10mm, as close as I can measure it.
The Rovner is worse - with the screw removed the difference in legths of the sides is about 7mm.

All the tenor ligs seem to have a length of 1", the Rovner is about 1mm longer at 26.5ish mm (which exaggerates the problem a little).

None of the 2 screws that I have will close down enough to hold properly on the PPT.

I'd prefer to use a Rovner type, as the metal ligs mark the mouthpieces.

Thanks a bunch!
 

Pete Thomas

Chief of Stuff
Commercial Café Supporter
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McLean, Virginia
I'd prefer to use a Rovner type, as the metal ligs mark the mouthpieces.
I'll definitely do some research on this when I get back from Frankfurt. One thing I do with two screws is to sometimes use shims of card or leather. I have to do this with my baritone HR Link. Ed advises this, in fact he has said that some players he knows use a leather shim with a metal lig to improve the sound.

My jury (as you might imagine from what I've said before) is still out on this one!
 

Chris98

Senior Member
Messages
1,076
I'll definitely do some research on this when I get back from Frankfurt.
Hi Pete,

Have fun in Frankfurt and give us the run down on anything new you come across when you get back.

I did toy with the idea of trying to make a ligature, after all, how hard can it be! I thought it'd be a nice satisfying job, like going into the garage to cut a length of wood in half, not because it needs to be cut in half, it's sometimes just satisfying to do it!

Anyway after daydreaming about the endless possible materials and lovely tools that such an undertaking would require I found myself daydreaming about other things and have decided to see what you find in Frankfurt before putting together and applying the three unique patent's I've already devised.

Best wishes,

Chris
 

rhysonsax

Well-Known Member
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3,555
Location
Surrey, UK
Hi Rhys,

That's interesting, I'm going to have to try mine again then. Which plate do you use?

Best wishes,

Chris
At the moment on tenor I am using the plate with four dots.

I like all the plates and just use whichever one happens to be fitted at the time. I can hear some differences when I change plates, but much of that is probably down to disturbing the reed each time you change it. I think that the Vandoren descriptions of the different sounds for each plate are quite funny.

Also use Optimum ligs on alto and soprano when I'm playing on an ebonite mouthpiece, and also on metal tenors when the V16 Optimum fits.

Rhys
 

AlanT

Senior Member
Messages
236
Location
Mechanic Falls, Maine
I got my EVO here and it works great on the PPT> http://1stopclarinet.stores.yahoo.net/neroevtesaxl.html

Even though it's been replaced with the StarSeries if you do a Google search you will see there are still plenty of venders that still have them in stock.
 
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Chris98

Senior Member
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1,076
Even though it's been replaced with the StarSeries if you do a Google search you will see there are still plenty of venders that still have them in stock.
Hi Alan,

I'll wait until Pete's gets back from Germany to see if he's found anything interesting, otherwise I'll get the EVO, good to know you've had success with it.

Looking on Edwards Pillinger website I notice that he has a page for Ligature Solutions. The PPT is not mentioned unsurprisingly as it's a joint venture with Pete, but I wonder if the PPT blank is the same as some of Mr Pillinger's other tenor pieces and so the suggestions might be worthy of further investigation.

All the best,

Chris
 

Pete Thomas

Chief of Stuff
Commercial Café Supporter
Messages
12,645
Location
McLean, Virginia
Well I'm back, a bit tired, (well completely "saxophoned out" to be honest).

But a quick response is that

(a) The PPTs have no relation to Ed's blanks, so his page on ligs will not be relevant.

(b) I have sourced a very cheap and workable 2-screw which I may now included as standard. This is called APD

But I also found that a Vandoren Optimum is not really workable, (unless your name is Rhys!) I tested this with the main man at Vandoren and he agreed that it doesn't work (BTW he liked the mouthpiece!). But it would be fine with a bit of a shim at the front.

re: Francois Louis, this is odd.

Jules nachoman says it doesn't work at all. Well I beg to differ, and this is a complete U turn for me as I previously dismissed these as overpriced blingy ligs. But I spent some time testing them and they are great for the tenor and also the new (prototype) baritone PPT.

The one that works is the XL. In fact I did something I thought I would never ever do. I bought a Francois Louis ligature.
 

Chris98

Senior Member
Messages
1,076
Hi Pete,

Welcome back, thanks for your suggestions on the ligatures. I tried the Vandoren Optimum again and reaffirmed my original conclusion that it wasn't a great fit, maybe Rhys is using different reeds to me. I've never heard of APD before so will do a bit of googling. Not sure I've seen a Francois Louis ligature either, although isn't Mr TomMapfumo a happy user of their mouthpieces and reeds?

Best Wishes,

Chris
 

Chris98

Senior Member
Messages
1,076
Jules nachoman says it doesn't work at all. Well I beg to differ, and this is a complete U turn for me as I previously dismissed these as overpriced blingy ligs. But I spent some time testing them and they are great for the tenor and also the new (prototype) baritone PPT.

The one that works is the XL. In fact I did something I thought I would never ever do. I bought a Francois Louis ligature.
Hmm, they're not cheap!

Did you go for The Ultimate, Pure Brass or Basic?

Which pressure plate?

Is the 'smart cap' extra?

And if you went for the Ultimate did you compare the tonal variances of the different finishes, according the website:
The Brass is more resonant and vibrating.
The Silver is more resistant and darker.
The Gold has more "elegance" and a slicker tone quality (polished).
I can't help thinking a ligature is just a ligature, I just want to strap my reed on and get on with playing it.

I think I'll go to bed,

Chris
 
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kevgermany

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
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Just north of Munich
Guys thanks for the other suggestions. I did try and order an evo from Thoman when I got the PPT, but although it was listed on their web site, they had none and couldn't get them.

Pete, thanks for the research. Hope you had a good time there. Was about to order an optimum. If you're going to get a supply of 2 screws, perhaps you can sell them to existing owners as well. Hopefully they don't mark the mouthpieces.

Like Chris, am rather tempted to have a go at making one myself. Anyone got any idea about material - need something strong, non-stretch and rubber/plastic coated.
 
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