PPT and JUMBO JAVA squeak

jeremyjuicewah · Mar 13, 2015

On the tenor these mouthpieces are squeaking. They do not always do it but I have to be always aware that they might. I have put the same reeds on my Link straightaway, no problem, ever. I am not really happy about the way the ligs sit on both these mpcs, the PPT more so than the Jumbo. Now that I have the PPT I don't bother with this one, but it still does it so its worth mentioning.

It seems to me that the ligs, I have a Rovner Light and a BG which are the best fit for these (don't want to try a metal one on the PPT as its onyxite), slide too far down before I can get a good clamp on.

Anyone think this might be the prob? If so, I need a different lig and I am not sure what to use on the PPT. I have no shop to try it in.

Cheers
Mike

Jeanette · Mar 13, 2015

See here are these any use?

Jx

Pete Thomas · Mar 13, 2015

The Rovner Star works a treat, or else there is a two screw made by Marc Jean specifically for the PPT.

If you have a ligature which seems to be loose at the front due to the taper, then a cork, leather or cardboard shim will do the trick nicely.

The external profile of a PPT is similar to a Vandoren, but not quite the same, so a Vandoren java lig should also work.

kevgermany · Mar 13, 2015

The Marc Jean works really well. However With the PPT tenor you need to control the reed well. side pressure from your lips is the answer.

Nick Wyver · Mar 13, 2015

I've never known ligs to make a difference regards squeaking (Ads will correct me on that one). Mostly it's down to inexperience on that particular combination of reed and mouthpiece or some sort of mismatch between the two (or a duff reed of course).

jeremyjuicewah · Mar 13, 2015

I have ordered a Rovner Star, it needs it anyway, the ligs I have are not comfy on the PPT.

Nick Wyver said:
I've never known ligs to make a difference regards squeaking (Ads will correct me on that one). Mostly it's down to inexperience on that particular combination of reed and mouthpiece or some sort of mismatch between the two (or a duff reed of course).

I think there is some of this going on too. As Kev says too, it may need a bit more handling. I don't think its the reeds. I played a gig with it a few weeks ago and was not aware of this problem, but I expect that over that period of time I was playing it fine. Its a nice feeling mpc. I then got quite ill and didn't play for ten days.

I will get at it again tomorrow and shim the lig.

Cheers
Mike

jeremyjuicewah · Mar 18, 2015

For info, the Rovner Star arrived today. Its definitely a better fit but there's no improvement. This evening I have tried PPT with Star and 3 different reeds and 3 different saxes, it squeaks like a bucket full of drunk mice every time. I have gained some control, not perfect, by sucking in my cheeks a bit, I thought maybe that was what Kev meant, but I cant really play like that long term, not unless I get very used to it I guess.

I am at a loss.
Mike

Jeanette · Mar 18, 2015

Odd that it was playing OK until you were ill, did it take any time to get use to when you first got it?

Jx

jeremyjuicewah · Mar 19, 2015

I am beginning to doubt everything about it and me. I got it only just before a gig. Played it and got sick. (No, I don't think it is responsible for that too) I am ashamed to say I did not notice a problem. I am wondering if being mic'd up, some reverb and with rest of the racket through the monitors the squeak was masked. I hope I am not so poor that I could not notice that noise. I am going to carry on in practice as though it is not squeaking and see if I get to be able to stop it with familiarity. I think that I will manage that as I am sure now that there is nothing wrong with the mpc or the set up, so it has to be me.

Put the Link on and there simply is no problem, but I have been playing that for about three years now.

It is father's day in Spain, so ya boo sucks I am not going to work today. Though it is raining so hard that I would need a jet ski to get there anyway. The dogs are playing at re enacting the battle of the Somme in the veg patch. Fine except its rich, red mud and a little goes a long way in the house.

Cheers all
Mike

Ads · Mar 19, 2015

I cured the PPT squeak by using a thin metal Vandoren lig which JamesMac gave me - I gave it on with the PPT when I sold it to BigMartin - the Onyxite is a weird shape , I still say they ought to re-design it to being a normal HR link shape as the shape it is makes it very lig-unfriendly, the taper being too steep for most normal metal ligatures ..

I`ve often found Rovner ligs can be a cause of squeaking on tenor, also they can dull the sound , the Light being the worst offender - though obviously a compatible reed needs finding first - I foudn that RJS filed work well with the PPT pieces , I only sold mine because the tenor is a bright piece and it was too much on older Yamahas (62-Mk1, 32 and 61)

jazzdoh · Mar 19, 2015

I use a Vandoren masters lig on my PPT but don't have a problem squeaking,but jumbo Java's can be tricky because of the baffle.
Try taking in more mouthpiece and placing the lig further forward towards the tip,also play around with the angle of the mouthpiece that enters the mouth,all these things can have a bearing on squeaking.

Pete Thomas · Mar 19, 2015

jeremyjuicewah said:
Put the Link on and there simply is no problem, but I have been playing that for about three years now.

This does not surprise me at all.

I was at Bobby Wellins's house and he was interested in trying my PPT as he quite liked the sound I was getting. He put it on his horn, blew and could get nothing but squeaks.

This was obviously due to his embouchure over many years compensating for an Otto Link. He put a lot of mouthpiece in his mouth which is something I noticed people do with Links as it helps to get some brightness from them.

However I have found that a tenor PPT works best with a lot less in your mouth and this is something that can take Link users a long long time to get used to.

Pete Thomas · Mar 19, 2015

One more thing, a squeak can be due to a ligature, but is not the make of ligature per se but would be caused when the ligature (of whatever make) does not fit properly. Squeaks can also be caused by reeds, e.g. if you take a reed off a mouthpiece that has been on for a while and put it on a different mouthpiece, it will have formed to the first mouthpiece and not work very well on the second one.

aldevis · Mar 19, 2015

Pete Thomas said:
This was obviously due to his embouchure over many years compensating for an Otto Link. He put a lot of mouthpiece in his mouth which is something I noticed people do with Links as it helps to get some brightness from them.

This is the reason I cannot play tenor pieces with a high baffle anymore. Also the reason I have been described as a "bright player"

Pete Thomas said:
One more thing, a squeak can be due to a ligature, but is not the make of ligature per se but would be caused when the ligature (of whatever make) does not fit properly.

Since the OP has similar issues with the Jumbo Java, I bet on the baffling baffle.

Pete Thomas · Mar 19, 2015

aldevis said:
This is the reason I cannot play tenor pieces with a high baffle anymore. Also the reason I have been described as a "bright player"

Since the OP has similar issues with the Jumbo Java, I bet on the baffling baffle.

I tend to think it is the facing curve rather than the baffle.

Although the Jumbo Java (and RPC) were both inspirations for the PPT tenor, it differs quite radically from both of these, though the external profile is similar.

The facing curve and baffle is different (more like a good Berg but with some subtle differences)

aldevis · Mar 19, 2015

Pete Thomas said:
I tend to think it is the facing curve rather than the baffle.

Or the combination of the two.
The PPTs I tried were bright (for me) but comfortable.
A Guardala that Pillinger just refaced with my usual 9 facing is just far too bright for me to control.
Great facing, but too high a baffle.

Pete Thomas · Mar 19, 2015

aldevis said:
Or the combination of the two.

Maybe.

BigMartin · Mar 19, 2015

Pete Thomas said:
However I have found that a tenor PPT works best with a lot less in your mouth and this is something that can take Link users a long long time to get used to.

FWIW (ie not much) I found that with the PPT too, although my previous m/p was a Graftonite rather than a Link. Took me a few days to figure it out and I was worried I wasn't going to be able to handle the PPT. Love it now. Oh, and I haven't noticed any problems with my Rovner lig (I forget which kind it is).

Colin the Bear · Mar 19, 2015

Could this be reed position causing squeaking? Try moving it back a little.

thomsax · Mar 20, 2015

Hard for me to use a modern comfortable mouthpiece. I need a mouthpiece that is shaped as a Berg Larsen or a Dukoff. My last Rovner is differnt compared to the older Rovners I have. Another thing I use to do is not place the reed inline with the tip of the mouthpiece. Try to place the reed c ½ mm back.