SYOS

Potential sticky pad solution

Jazzaferri

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2,418
Location
Victoria BC Canada
I have been plagued with somewhat sticky pads on both my Keilwerth (black roos) and SML (top Prewtini's) alto's for the past year. Have tried all the usual solutions and while pad juice.... papers....et al worked for a little while the problem always returned. I have to play a lot of fast articulated 16ths in the R & B big band and was debating going the stronger spring tension route.

I had an old leather wing back chair that had been neglected in the basement for a few decades and wanted to use it but the leather was dry. An expert in the leather furniture field recommended leather honey which worked amazingly well. After some thought and ...........In desperation,
:eek::eek::eek:I experimented with the Keilwerth pads as it is usually my backup horn. I put a lightish coating of Leather Honey on each of the problem pads with a Q-tip. The problem went away and now after 4 months hasn't returned. I just put it on my SML which had fairly sticky E and F stack pads. Problem went away. Will report back on longevity on the Prestini's Side benefit is the pads should last even longer. I am going to do the whole SML sometime in the next few days.

@Stephen Howard ….have you had any experience of something along this line Leather Conditioner & Leather Cleaner - Since 1968
 

Wade Cornell

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New Zealand and Australia
I've had similar results using Holton's Electric Oil on difficult pads. Presumably most of us swab our instruments after use, but I also give special attention to the C# and G# and wipe those dry. For gigs I always carry talcum powder and a little strip of paper that will fit under the G#. You just dust a very small amount onto the paper and close the pad on to it. It's seldom necessary if you keep the pads clean and dry, but works in a pinch.
 

Stephen Howard

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UK
@Stephen Howard ….have you had any experience of something along this line Leather Conditioner & Leather Cleaner - Since 1968
I've tried quite a few leather conditioners down the years, and they all worked very well at first...but eventually made the problem worse.
Haven't tried the brand you mention, but I'm pretty sure it'll be a combination of oils and waxes.
However, that doesn't mean it won't work. It could be the case that their particular mix is in exactly the right proportions to keep the leather supple without being greasy.

One of the biggest concerns is rather an invisible one - which is how much of the product finds it way through the leather onto the felt core...and what effect does it have on it over time? If the leather remains in perfect condition but the felt core becomes stiff, the pad is just as dead as if the leather had failed.

It certainly sounds like it's worth testing, though.
 

JayeNM

Formerly JayePDX
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885
Location
New Mexico, US
Thing is when using pad papers/powder paper...they will work well.... as long as occasionally you hit the pad with it again. They are not particularly meant to be a 'one-application and all is fine forever' solution....
 

jbtsax

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Beautiful Springville, Utah USA
My question concerning "leather treatments" is that they are formulated to be used on bare, untreated leather. Almost all "modern" pads except for Music Medic Roos have some type of water proofing treatment applied to the leather. If the leather treatment is water based, can it penetrate the surface enough to have an effect upon the leather. If it is some type of solvent based, does it remove the factory waterproofing treatment? The photo below shows a pad that has been repeatedly cleaned with naptha. On "stubborn pads" that still sound sticky after cleaning I remove the key and rub teflon powder on the pad with my index finger and blow away the excess. This seems to work for a long period of time.

1568388302167.jpeg
 

spike

Old Indian
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Half way up a hill
"Propert's
Specially Prepared
Leather and Saddle Soap."
I've been using it for years.
I can't remember the last time I had to have a pad replaced.
But I can remember that I had a croissant with my coffee for breakfast yesterday.
I drank two cups of coffee this morning and then went out and bought a chain saw and two crates of beer.
Full moon tonight, could be an interesting evening.
 

s.mundi

Member
Messages
469
Location
Texas Gulf Coast
I use only the best leather conditioner on planet Earth. My new edition just arrived and it received a full Bick-4 bath.

BICK-4 BICK-4 BICK-4 BICK-4
 

Pete Thomas

Chief of Stuff
Commercial Café Supporter
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McLean, Virginia
My question concerning "leather treatments" is that they are formulated to be used on bare, untreated leather. Almost all "modern" pads except for Music Medic Roos have some type of water proofing treatment applied to the leather. If the leather treatment is water based, can it penetrate the surface enough to have an effect upon the leather. If it is some type of solvent based, does it remove the factory waterproofing treatment? The photo below shows a pad that has been repeatedly cleaned with naptha. On "stubborn pads" that still sound sticky after cleaning I remove the key and rub teflon powder on the pad with my index finger and blow away the excess. This seems to work for a long period of time.

View attachment 13372
One is much happier than the other
pads.jpg
 
OP
Jazzaferri

Jazzaferri

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2,418
Location
Victoria BC Canada
@Stephen Howard ...if you can recall I would find it very helpful to know how long it took for the stickiness to come back. I ahve3 used a number of leather conditioners over the years but none have had the consistency like leather honey.

I used only a very light coating as saturating the leather goes against the manufacturers instructions so getting through to the felt would be likely be ascribed to improper application.

be 5 months at the end of September. so far so good.
 

Pete Thomas

Chief of Stuff
Commercial Café Supporter
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Location
McLean, Virginia
I'm very wary of any product added to pads - I've seen so many including lemon oil, WD40, talcum powder (aka gig dust), bat urine etc.

My concern is these things can work really well in the short term, then cause problems so I always stick to the tried and tested method of lighter fuel and making sure the spring is strong enough.

But like @Stephen Howard I'd like to keep an open mind - if it works and continues to work over time then great
 
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Stephen Howard

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1,651
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UK
@Stephen Howard ...if you can recall I would find it very helpful to know how long it took for the stickiness to come back. I ahve3 used a number of leather conditioners over the years but none have had the consistency like leather honey.
.....
be 5 months at the end of September. so far so good.
It varied - between no time at all and barely a week - so five months is very good going!

However, I'd be reluctant to 'sign off' the product until I'd thoroughly tested it.
With all due respect, I often find that these 'magic bullet' solutions work in a slightly different way to how most people think they work.
As an extreme analogy, consider a chap who bangs a hammer into his knee every day...but then starts eating kiwi fruits in favour of the hammering. He duly claims that kiwi fruits are the magical cure for his knee pain.

That's not to diminish from your discovery (and it may well be the holy grail of sticky pads), but until I've run it through the old testing mill I have to admit to some scepticism, purely on the basis of what I've seen before.

If you're right though (and you may well be) it won't be long before the stuff starts turning up on certain repair supplies sites as a guaranteed fix for sticky pads ;)
 

Colin the Bear

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12,474
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Burnley bb9 9dn
I just spent half an hour trying to sort a sticky Lh2. Several goes with the naptha/lighter fuel. Ok for a while then that slight delay opening that throws you completely off. Then I noticed it was happening when going from F to long Bb. Closer inspection revealed it was nothing to do with the pad. Lh2 was sticking to Bis. Cleaned and sorted.

I was reminded of an old saying. " You can't dig a hole in a different place by digging the same hole deeper" Lesson relearned. A sticky pad isn't always a sticky pad. Doh!
 

spike

Old Indian
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Half way up a hill
I was at the doctors this morning complaining about me Atorvis-Statins, they've been giving me joint pains and leg cramps.
While she was looking for a possible alternative I knicked one of her say Aaaah sticks.
Now this is like a lolly stick but wider and longer and I thought to myself . . .
"Ello, Ello that'll do nicely with a strip of Chammy leather (the skin of a European mountain goat.) stuck on it to keep my pads clean".
I've always used lolly sticks up til now - this could be the new improved improvement version.
Maybe I should market them with a tin of saddle soap as "Pad Stickling Sticks Kit©"
 
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