Mouthpieces Pop Test - How long should it last until the pop?

[nigeld]

Just for fun, as one does, I tried the "pop test" on some mouthpieces. I have never bothered with this before. I usually flatten the bottom of my reeds with a reed-geek and see if they sound OK.

My fairly narrow-tip alto mouthpieces can keep a seal for a couple of seconds or more before popping.

But I have tried several good tenor mouthpieces, including a Phil-Tone and a Lawton (all about 7-7* tip opening). They all make a satisfying loud "pop" sound, but none of them keeps the seal for more than half a second before popping.

My narrow-tip baritone mouthpiece holds a seal for a good while, but the more open tip ones don't.

So my question is whether the mouthpiece/reed combination is supposed to hold the seal for more than a second, or whether the fact that there is a pop sound at all is enough to "pass" the test (whatever that means!).

What am I really testing here?

 

[Phil]

Mostly you are wearing out your reeds.

The pop test will tell you if you have a seal. The thicker or newer the reed the less time it will hold.

There is no time formula. If you have a seal at the table most pieces will pass within reason. It does not tell you if your facing is good. Only a mouthpiece with a horrible facing would fail due to the facing and it would be so bad most players would know the pieces sucked. So most the time you simply find out if you have a seal. Its not worth concern on how long or short it stays.

The more open the tip the less long it will hold...just basic physics...its moisture on there not superglue 🙂

 

[Pete Thomas]

It doesn't have to pass the pop test for a mouthpiece and/or reed to be playing OK.

Don't worry about it, only worry if there is something wrong when you play it.

 

[jbtsax]

I agree with Pete. However the "pop test" can be a good diagnostic tool if a mouthpiece is difficult to play using a variety of different reeds. I like to look at the tip and rails under magnification when a mouthpiece won't "pop" to see if there is a reason the reed won't close perfectly and create a vacuum. The springiness of the reed, the tip opening, and the length of the lay are all factors that effect a mouthpiece's ability to "pop".

 

[saxyjt]

Phil summed it up very well I guess. It's just an indication, but if it fails the test it's usually not a good indication.

Just for fun, as one does, I tried the "pop test" on some mouthpieces. I have never bothered with this before. I usually flatten the bottom of my reeds with a reed-geek and see if they sound OK.

The point is to test first and flatten if required.

Mostly you are wearing out your reeds.

The trouble with flattening is that it tends to erase the markings on the back of the reed, so now I have some good reeds that are unidentified. It saddens me as I'd like to know which ones worked well for the future...

The question reminds me of a famous joke by Fernand Raynaud, a long gone french comic:

The question is: "How long does the barrel of a gun take to cool off?"

Answer after a long story: "Some time". (Un certain temps).

 

[Phil]

Use a sharpie to write on the top of your reeds (behind the vamp).
...a personal code of sorts.

 

[saxyjt]

Use a sharpie to write on the top of your reeds (behind the vamp).
...a personal code of sorts.

I've sort of done that, with Posca pen. But it tends to fade. I haven't tried Sharpie yet!

 

[Colin the Bear]

I marked a load of reeds with symbols to indicate...who knows...I forgot what the symbols meant

 

[GCinCT]

I marked a load of reeds with symbols to indicate...who knows...I forgot what the symbols meant

You realize, you're going to end up with Indiana Jones in your house trying to interpret the symbols and find the sacred Mk VI of Mola Ran.

 

[apinter]

My old Berg Larsen just doesn’t “pop”.
There is no vacuum inside. For what I can understand it is not air filtering in the table. It is the profile of the mouthpiece: the reed cannot bend enough to stay closed.

If I suck from mouthpiece keeping end closed with my hand I can feel the vacuum. Hand pops. But out of mouth the reed opens immediately. Doesn’t stay sealed.

Should I be concerned? It always played well for me (altough I am not that great player)

 

[Colin the Bear]

If it plays ok there's no problem.

 

[Royston]

No SYOS mouthpiece passes the pop test but play amazingly???

 

[apinter]

As my Berg Larsen begun to pop, I can say that -sometimes- part of the problem is also the right technique in letting him pop.

I never let pop any mouthpiece before, so now I know that I need to place the mouthpiece in mouth way deeper than I thought. Doing that the vacuum is crated better and the pop comes. Sometimes...

 

[jbtsax]

This is a quote from acoustical aspects of woodwind instruments by c. nederveen:

When the reed is open, a compression pulse travels down the tube. At the open end it is reflected as a rarefaction which closes the reed when it returns.

The reed's closing to form an "airtight seal" doesn't appear to be a necessary condition in my understanding.

 

[hedgehog]

"rarefaction" - I had to look up that word, but that sentence explains a lot about why the pitch of the sound changes as you change the length of the tube but closing or opening keys. I've wondered about that for a long time! The wave travels thru the medium (air) at a constant speed but as you lengthen the path by closing keys...it takes longer for the wave to travel. No, I don't want to think about octave keys right now!

 

[Pete Thomas]

There are some mouthpieces with which you would not expect the pop test to work:

 

[saxyjt]

There are some mouthpieces with which you would not expect the pop test to work:


View attachment 28994

Not expect, but does it work?

There is no fundamental reason for it to fail. The seal should still be where it matters.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Not expect, but does it work?

Probably not, and yet those mouthpieces work very well at what they are designed to do. i.e. play music rather than go "pop." 🙂

 

[turf3]

Complete waste of time.

The consensus is that a mouthpiece can pass the pop test and play badly, and that a mouthpiece can fail the pop test and yet play well.

So we have a test that pretty much everyone agrees will regularly fail good parts and pass bad ones, AND YET some people cling to it, justifying this by ever-more-elaborate intellectual gyrations.

Bottom line, as far as I'm concerned, is that a test that is well known to pass bad parts and fail good parts, is a worthless test.

"For entertainment purposes only".

 

[Colin the Bear]

The pop test is more about the reed imo.