Theory & Impro Playing minor 7 chords starting on the fifth.

[mpjbiker]

I've been looking at an Eric Alexander transcription of Lazybird, which I find really hard to solo over. Over a Bm7, he plays F# A C# E, which is F#m7. I guess it works cos it gives you the 5 7 9 11 of the Bm7? So (I'm sure you're all saying obviously!), that an easy way of remembering the extensions is to play the minor 7th a fifth up from what's written?

 

[turf3]

Well, I don't know if I'd call it an "easy way". And of course it doesn't help with b9#9, or other extensions. I'd vote for just learning the 9ths and 11ths of chords rather than introducing yet another memory step.

 

[BigMartin]

If it's easy for you then it's easy, I suppose. I do know that F# minor pentatonc ideas can sound nice over a Bm7, which I suppose is related to this.

 

[Dr G]

Or you could recognize that both Bm7 and F#m7 are diatonic to D major (Bm is the natural minor). If you shed D major, you'll find all the connections.

 

[skeller047]

I think you will get farther faster by considering what key you are in. Assuming tenor key here, the key of the tune is A. So this is an A major sixth arpeggio.

If you spend all your time working on the individual chords, you will not be able to construct a cohesive solo. You have to keep the chord you are on, AND the larger form in mind simultaneously.

 

[Pete Thomas]

So (I'm sure you're all saying obviously!), that an easy way of remembering the extensions is to play the minor 7th a fifth up from what's written?

That kind of stuff just confuses me, thinking about two chords instead of one.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Agree with all comments about not adding further complication.
EG in C major you wouldn’t think of E G B D as a m7 a third up or Em7 - we all tend to get to know the “easier keys” very well, so you just improvise away using the notes of the chord.

Why don’t you transpose and try improvising over a chord that you feel more comfortable with - maybe Am7. Get to know and hear the ins and outs and even though it will need to go up a tone again you should find that your ear will guide you.

Plus, practice Bm7 scale and arpeggios built on each degree of the scale.

I think we forget how much time we originally put in trying to get to a decent level over C, C7, or F, G etc - so why think that little work can be put into the rest of the 12 keys?

 

[mpjbiker]

Or you could recognize that both Bm7 and F#m7 are diatonic to D major (Bm is the natural minor). If you shed D major, you'll find all the connections.

Sorry, I don't understand-how is F#m7 diatonic to D major? Surely it's got G#, C#, and D#? Didn't mean to open a can of worms-just pointed out something I hadn't spotted before. And I practice in all keys 😀!

 

[PiccoloPirate]

D E F# G A B C# D E F# G A B C# D E etc
This might be what has been stated?
D F# A C# M7
E G B D m7
F# A C# E m7
G B D F# M7
A C# E G 🧐
etc etc

Likable stuff should always be practiced in all keys.
Arpeggios and chords on piano/melodica.
Inversions as well.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Sorry, I don't understand-how is F#m7 diatonic to D major? Surely it's got G#, C#, and D#? Didn't mean to open a can of worms-just pointed out something I hadn't spotted before. And I practice in all keys 😀!

F#m7 has no G# or D#. It is chord IIIm7 of D , therefore it is indeed diatonic in the key of D major.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Could not resist.
Dexter Borged me. 😵‍💫

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0vhqDCy9eQ

 

[Colin the Bear]

Learn and play the changes. Practice variations on melody/ theme. Play along with your favourite version. Then be yourself and fly solo. Don't overthink it. The next note will come. Artists paint. Engineers use numbers. Be musical.

 

[skeller047]

Sorry, I don't understand-how is F#m7 diatonic to D major? Surely it's got G#, C#, and D#? Didn't mean to open a can of worms-just pointed out something I hadn't spotted before. And I practice in all keys 😀!

You have succumbed to the dreaded chord-scale theory. This is the theory that says “When you see a minor 7th chord, play the Dorian mode”.

That theory is WRONG. If you see a progression like this:

| F#m7 | Bm7 | Em7 | A7 |

You should think “Ahhh, that’s the key of D major!” No G# or D# in this progression. Don’t change scales when playing over this, use the D major scale for all these chords. The Dorian Mode Theory would have you play a different scale for each of those m7 chords. That won’t sound good (well, it might if treated properly, but that involves some advanced work).

 

[Pete Thomas]

Didn't mean to open a can of worms-just pointed out something I hadn't spotted before.

It’s actually a can if good worms as it started off some good discussion.

 

[mrblackbat]

I don't think it's complicating things to think of chords in different fashion.

If you look at a ii7 chord, for example, it's an inversion of a IV6 chord. Both function as subdominants (the ii is actually the substitution of a IV). So if you modify the IV to a major 7, it allows you to play a great sound over that ii7 chord- start on the 7th and then play up the chord; e.g. see Dmin7 you can play an Fmaj7 arpeggios starting on the 7th. This will highlight some great colour tones over the minor 7: the 9, 3rd and 7th.

On top of that, you've reduced the amount of things you need to practise: minor 7 practise is now just major 7 practise, which you've been doing anyway.

A similar reductive approach can be taken to dominant chords: if you take the b9, 3rd, 5th and 7th of a dominant, you have a diminished seventh. And there are only three diminished 7ths: so you now have only three things to practise rather than 12, which is simpler.

 

[Colin the Bear]

C6 inverted Am7.
Am6 inverted Fmaj7
I'm out. 🤗

 

[mrblackbat]

C6 inverted Am7.
Am6 inverted Fmaj7
I'm out. 🤗

Not quite though. Am6 = A, C, E and F#.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Not quite though. Am6 = A, C, E and F#.

I really am out.☹️

 

[mrblackbat]

I really am out.☹️

And then of course a minor 6 chord is just an inversion of a ii7b5 - Am6 being A, C, E, F#; same as F#m7b5 - F#, A, C, E. So it's the same thing in minor keys, the iv chord and ii chord can be thought of as the same, with the same function; Am6 being iv in E minor, same as F#m7b5 being the ii.

 

[mpjbiker]

I need a lie down 😵!