Saxophone beginners Playing high F#

[atwl77]

A recent frustration for me is the high F# (regardless of whether I'm using the palm keys, or with the front F altissimo keys).

I can play it fine during long tone exercises. In fact, I feel like in terms of practicing dynamics (long tones from pp to ff back down to pp), my control of the palm keys is much better than the other registers of the horn -- I can get really quiet up there compared to other notes.

However, in actual playing, it turns out I can only play it if I'm prepared for it -- ie. taken a deep breath, prepared my embouchure, mentally prepared. If the note turns up at the end of a phrase, e.g. near the end of an energetic chorus (where my breath support isn't in its best form), or near the end of a practice session (where I'm already fatigued), is where the trouble is. Instead of getting the note to sound, it has a higher chance to come up as a very sad bleat/quack/whatever-you-call-it.

Are there any sort of exercises or drills to help improve on this?

 

[thomsax]

It helps if you hear the tone you're going to play in your head. This guy played great altissimos without using altissimo fingerings.

View: https://youtu.be/O_mS_lja3Mw?si=YgcX1mIb0errke0o

 

[Pete Thomas]

However, in actual playing, it turns out I can only play it if I'm prepared for it -- ie. taken a deep breath, prepared my embouchure, mentally prepared.

This applies to any altissimo. It fact to a degree it can apply to any note, but more so for the high ones.

I'd carry on what you are doing but (for a while at least) concentrating o the high notes, and maybe some altissimo higher than the F#

 

[mizmar]

I can play it fine during long tone exercises

Do you feel your embouchure is different than when you do "core" note long tones? Biting a little? Position of jaw etc?

It helps if you hear the tone you're going to play

I find that can help. Particularly when practicing scales etc. into altissimo...

 

[atwl77]

I'd carry on what you are doing but (for a while at least) concentrating o the high notes, and maybe some altissimo higher than the F#

The highest I can reliably do now is only G... so I guess I'll start focusing more on these (and maybe try to hit G# and A too).

Do you feel your embouchure is different than when you do "core" note long tones? Biting a little? Position of jaw etc?

Different voicing - throat and tongue position, tighter seal along the sides of the mouth perhaps... but I don't feel like I'm biting. I also practice jaw vibrato on these notes, and from experience, I would definitely lose the sound if I lowered my jaw if I were biting.

Edit: reading again, I might have misunderstood and maybe you mean difference in embouchure when playing long tones vs when playing exercises/licks/songs? In that case, yes and no -- when I'm getting tired or start running out of breath at the end of a long phrase, yeah I notice getting a bit tighter. But I'm very conscious about that and try to avoid tightening up... though sometimes hard to keep it relaxed when my diaphragm is "running out of juice".

 

[Pete Thomas]

The highest I can reliably do now is only G... so I guess I'll start focusing more on these (and maybe try to hit G# and A too).

A is easier than either G or G#

 

[mizmar]

Different voicing -

I found that, once I'd found the altissimo note - which might require some wrangling; I could start to unwind any difference in embouchure while holding the tone... Then the move up to an altissimo note became smoother.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Just let it happen. Don't squeeze for it or push for it. For high note embouchure, think low.

The height of the palm keys can affect it, as can the height of front F.

Sometimes hitting all the palm keys and the F# key can alter the position of the saxophone making your embouchure askew. Sling position should be high.

 

[atwl77]

Sometimes hitting all the palm keys and the F# key can alter the position of the saxophone making your embouchure askew. Sling position should be high.

I've noticed that, especially on tenor. On alto I've not noticed/felt any positioning issues, though maybe it's still there, just subtle, but enough to cause problems.

 

[Ballymenaboy]

one point worth investigating is whether the ligature is too tight thereby limiting reed vibration ..I use Rovner ligatures and originally had them screwed up very tight and strangling high notes..my enlightenment cane when I took the time to read a Rovner leaflet that recommended tightening until resistance is fekt and then another half turn.This fact is orobabl known by most but not by all. Hope it helps

 

[Ballymenaboy]

one point worth investigating is whether the ligature is too tight thereby limiting reed vibration ..I use Rovner ligatures and originally had them screwed up very tight and strangling high notes..my enlightenment cane when I took the time to read a Rovner leaflet that recommended tightening until resistance is fekt and then another half turn.This fact is orobabl known by most but not by all. Hope it helps

Apologies for some misprints but the old arthur Itus strikes again.

 

[atwl77]

A is easier than either G or G#

Huh... you're right. I got A just after a few tries... well, not reliably/consistently yet, but I suppose that will come with practice. Also managed to slur up to Bb and B.

 

[thomsax]

A recent frustration for me is the high F# (regardless of whether I'm using the palm keys, or with the front F altissimo keys).

I can play it fine during long tone exercises. In fact, I feel like in terms of practicing dynamics (long tones from pp to ff back down to pp), my control of the palm keys is much better than the other registers of the horn -- I can get really quiet up there compared to other notes.

However, in actual playing, it turns out I can only play it if I'm prepared for it -- ie. taken a deep breath, prepared my embouchure, mentally prepared. If the note turns up at the end of a phrase, e.g. near the end of an energetic chorus (where my breath support isn't in its best form), or near the end of a practice session (where I'm already fatigued), is where the trouble is. Instead of getting the note to sound, it has a higher chance to come up as a very sad bleat/quack/whatever-you-call-it.

Are there any sort of exercises or drills to help improve on this?

Forgot to ask you if your sax have F# key?

I don't have high Fiss 3 on my old Martin tenor saxes so I fingering octave key, front F and F key. Octave key, front F, C and side Bb key on my The Martin Tenor. The german fingering chart (Grifftabellen) I bought in 1973 says octave key, front F and F# side/alt key. Octave key, all palm keys, C, side C and F# side/alt key as well. How to play altissimos diffent from saxes to saxes. I'm not picky and I don't play licks or melodies using altissomo tones so I keep it simple. I just know one or two altissimo tones and I'm often playing in concert A and E. I don't have side/alt F# key on my Martin baritone so I just have to forget fingerings with side - /alternative F# involved.

 

[atwl77]

Forgot to ask you if your sax have F# key?

Yeah, it has though I also know the altissimo fingering for F#.

 

[thomsax]

Yeah, it has though I also know the altissimo fingering for F#.

Wrong; The german fingering chart (Grifftabellen) I bought in 1973 says octave key, front F and F# key. Octave key, all palm keys, C, side C and F# key as well. Sorry.

 

[valjeanmeister]

Incorporate that note into other exercises, someone mentioned scales, I'd suggest arpeggios and other interval exercises. That's what worked for me for F# and G. Still struggling with G#...

 

[Pete Thomas]

Still struggling with G#...

We all are

 

[JSL]

Yeah, it has though I also know the altissimo fingering for F#.

For F#, try octave key + LH 1 3, RH 1, +/- Eb pinky key (it works without that Eb key but try it both ways to see which you refer).

If you can play altissimo G, you should have no problem at all playing altissimo A (octave key + LH 23, RH 123). I find F# and A to be the two easiest altissimo notes.

 

[LostCircuits]

There are many ways to defur a feline...
F# for me is cleanest Front F and RH 1.
F: Front F, LH 3, RH 1, RH 3
E: Front F, LH 3, RH 1, Side F

There is a very good video on Altissimo on Dave Pollack's channel, it's well worth watching:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH8FodHo_Fk


G, G#, A are pretty easy but I had a hard time for a while to get A and G# even though, once you know them, they are super easy.

Everything above is really in my head, and I mean the fingering is not that important as "hearing" the tone.

There is another good video by Scott Paddock but I can't look for it right now.