Pete's Warmup Exercise - I get it now

[AndyB]

Saxophone Video lessons from Youtube

I trust Pete's judgment on how valuable this exercise must be. But being a re-beginner I was stumped at first at how to conquer it.

I finally made a breakthrough so I thought I'd post it in case it could help anybody else.

#1 - I got my major scales solid, ascending and descending.

#2 - I worked the major triads 1-3-5 until I had them down solidly using a 1-3-5-8-5-3-1 sequence.

#3- I worked the major 7 arpeggios similarly using a 1-3-5-7-5-3-1 sequence.

#4 - I worked major 9 arpeggios next using 1-3-5-7-9-7-5-3-1.

#5 - I worked major 9 arpeggios up and descending major scales like this:
1-3-5-7-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1

#6 - Now I was ready for Pete. His warmup is just a part of this sequence- the 7th arpeggio up plus only part of the descending major scale to get you to the next scale tone.

1-3-5-7-------6-5-4-3---- (or)

1-3-5-7-6-5-4-3

I can look at it and see that its not hard conceptually, but this is what I ended up doing by trial an error to get it under my fingers. After working 1-5, I had all the ingredients worked into muscle memory and it felt very comfortable just using part of the sequences I had already internalized.

Still have a lot of practicing to do, but now I can "think" the exercise as just a 7th arp up in thirds and then following the major scale of that exercise down to the next starting tone instead of reading it.

Good luck.

 

[Linky Lee]

This is exactly what I've been doing apart from I've been practicing it extended to the 9th.
i.e 1-3-5-7-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-(2)
and the other way round too: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-7-5-3-1-(2)

Am still working my way through the majors until I have them solid and at reasonable tempos (always seem to struggle with Ab and Gb but fine when thinking of them as their sharp equivalents).

Going to then start on the minors, then mixing them.

1-3-5-7-9-8-7-6-5-(6/1)-3-5-7-9-8-7-6-5
or if that isn't clear
c-e-g-b-d-c-b-a-g-(move to minor)-a-c-e-g-b-a-g-f-e

Then I plan on applying the pattern to the diminished scales.

 

[AndyB]

Cool. We'll have to swap notes since we are at the same place.

It helps me to think of C, E and G major triads as they are either all 3 natural, all 3 flat or all 3 sharp.

Gb Bb Db
G B D
G# B# D#

And E, A and D major triads are either sharp in the middle or flat on the outsides.

Ab C Eb
A C# E

I am attempting to make the triads home base and think through all the scales and arpeggios relative to the triads they're built on. I don't hear anybody else say they do that, but it seems the easiest way to memorize things for me.

 

[Linky Lee]

I'm thoroughly confused by most of that I'm afraid. I didn't get what you meant about C, E and G triad either all being natural sharp or flat? Sorry

With regard to thinking of the scales related to the triad is exactly the same as relating the scale to the chord, as a triad is the most basic chord. CEG being major, C Eb G being Minor, C Eb Gb being diminished and with the 7th, C E G Bb being the dominant 7 chord.

The Aebersold stuff goes along with this method. Though takes it to the extreme with millions of scales, modes etc. and all the chords they can possibly relate too and so on.

Playing the exercises today it's only really the 4 scales of Gb, B, Db and Ab that are causing me grief. So I'm thinking of spending some time working through some studies in these keys.

In 'The Saxophone' by Otto Langey there are 48 melodic studies which go through all keys. Someone once told me who wrote them but I forget. I plan to use those (have played about half but not got far enough to get to those awkward keys yet) and definitely worth checking out if you want to get to grips with the arpeggios. It's classical music but has it all in there just the same.

 

[griff136]

Hi Lee, with the Ab and Gb, if you aren't already doing so practice these ones first and try not to think of them as their enharmonic counterparts ( G# and F#)

 

[AndyB]

Sorry if that was confusing. Maybe this is better. The way I see it, there are 3 useful patterns of flats and sharps for remembering the major triads.

MAJOR TRIADS
=============================================
Group 1 (all 3 notes natural, sharp or flat)
-----------------
C E G
F A C
G B D

Cb Eb Gb (or B Eb Gb)
Fb Ab Cb (or E Ab B )
Gb Bb Db

C# E# G#
F# A# C#
G# B# D#

Group 2 (middle note sharp or outer notes flats)
-----------------
E G# B
A C# E
D F# A

Eb G Bb
Ab C Eb
Db F Ab

Group 3 (B flat on the bottom note, or sharp on the top notes)
-----------------
Bb D F
B D# F#


This way helped me get the triads firmly in memory. I think of them as one piece instead of three.

Then I think of the 7th relative to the octave. If I want a dom 7th arp then I add the note a whole step below the tonic. If I want a major 7 arp, then I add the note one-half step below the tonic (same degree as the key signature).

Then to get to the ninth, I just think a 3rd above the 7th.

So I see the 9th arp as just 3 parts instead of 5: the triad + 7th + 9th. See?

I guess everybody memorizes these things differently. Rote memory doesn't seem to work for me but these formula seem to do the trick.

 

[Linky Lee]

Ah I get it now! Makes sense what you're saying to catagorise them according to their sharp flat positional attributes.

Kind of a similar concept to only learning 3 diminished arpeggios as they just repeat.

i.e C diminished: C Eb Gb A C is the same as Eb, Gb and A diminished arpeggios just starting and ending in different places.
Therefore 3 permutations until you go round the loop.


Based on your way of learning the triad extensions, I'd guess that thinking of the diminished arpeggios with a note a semi-tone up from the previous (half-whole) or a note a semi-tone down from the next (whole-half) a good way to learn the full scales. Again only 3 as per before.

Griff, I am trying to do so. I just tend to find flats harder for some reason?

 

[AndyB]

Right. Then the only other thing I have to know for the major triads is the Cycle of Thirds:

>>-F-A-C-E-G-B-D-F->>

And I just think of the the word "face" (FACE) and the phrase "Every Good Boy Does Fine" (EGBDF) connecting together end-to-end and cycling through the triads.

(F)AC(E)GBD(F)AC(E)GBD(F)----

So I just have to use the cycle of thirds to find the next chord tone and then use my formula groups to know if that chord tone in the cycle is natural, flat or sharp. Does that make sense to you?

Like yourself, I'm working on the flat keys now too. Next, I'm hoping I can extend this learning tool to the other triads just like you suggest.

 

[AndyB]

Oh, goodie. These patterns work for minor triads too...

The groups switch and the patterns are just opposite.

MINOR TRIADS
=============================================

Group 1 (middle note flat or outer notes sharp)
-----------------
C Eb G (remember C-minor triad had a flat in the middle)
F Ab C
G Bb D

C# E G#
F# A C#
G# B D#

Group 2 (all 3 notes natural, sharp or flat)
-----------------
E G B (remember e-minor triad is all naturals)
A C E
D F A

Eb Gb Bb
Ab Cb Eb
Db Fb Ab

E# G# B#
A# C# E#
D# F# A#

Group 3 (two flats on the bottom or F sharp on the top note)
-----------------
Bb Db F
B D F#

 

[kevgermany]

Not sure I understand all this, but it lokos like a good thread to make a sticky...