Persistent sticky Bis key

[Digger2054]

The Bis key on my Tenor (NWII) is sticking so far I've tried.

Cleaning the pad with a cotton bud and clean water.

Rubbing a pencil onto paper and sandwiching it between the pad and tone hole gently removing the paper.

The same with lighter fluid. Which yields results for a very short (minutes) time.

I've tried putting a bit more tension on the spring, but it continues to persistently stick. Almost like it's lazy, sometimes just a split second delay on it opening, other times it's more stubborn. The pad below occasionally does it to a lesser extent.

Any other DIY solutions I should attempt or just run it to a tech and perhaps change the offending pad(s)

 

[Veggie Dave]

I recently used a bit of paper from a bank statement on a pad I was having the same problem with. The technique I used was more like a bath towel than a simple pull-through with pad paper.

I used a bit with no printing. It worked for me. I wouldn't want to have to do it often, though, just in case it's a bit too aggressive for repeated use.

 

[skeller047]

If you have the skills, remove the key and thoroughly clean the pad with naptha (lighter fluid). Q-tip, AKA cotton bud, in the tone hole impression. Don’t rub hard, many soft applications is better.

Then take a cloth or paper towel, soak with naptha and clean the tone hole rim.

If that doesn’t work, replace the pad.

 

[Digger2054]

I've tried the lighter fluid on a Q-tip and around the tone hole too.

Perhaps the paper I'm using isn't quite abrasive enough.

 

[skeller047]

If you have the key off, take a small piece of aluminum foil, crumple it up, and use on the tone hole. It may be the surface of the tone hole is rough or has a burr or something. The aluminmum foil acts like bronze wool to polish, but doesn’t leave bits of bronze fibers floating about.

If even that doesn’t work, have the pad replaced. Some pads are like that, the leather gets saturated in icky sticky goo.

 

[Stephen Howard]

It's always worth checking how much friction there is on the Bis Bb key - especially on horns where the upper stack is pivoted on a single rod/hinge screw. Easiest way to do this is to pop the Bis Bb spring off its cradle and see whether the key rises and falls without any resistance when you lift it up. Repeat the test with the B key pressed down.

 

[Steve Marshall]

Yeah, could be bent sax or something mechanical.

 

[PigSquealer]

When was the last service? Sluggish key work and sticking pads tell me it’s been a while. With Steve‘s suggestion above put a spot of oil on. Well that’s providing the area isn’t all black and gooey. If you notice better movement you have your answer. Get it serviced !

 

[Digger2054]

I bought it from a reputable shop in May, the issues only started the past few weeks and is becoming a bit of an annoyance now.

It was overhauled a few years before I bought it with minimal use since. My teacher and a tech played it when I first got it and gave it the thumbs up.

I'll hopefully get chance today to have another look.

 

[PigSquealer]

You just jogged my memory. I remember when you got that sax in Bristol. I bought a sax about the same time from that store too. I agree, quality outfit.
A sax should get a light spot of oil every month or two depending on use. Just a pinhead or two everywhere things move. Clean up any residual with a ear bud or pipe cleaner.
It’s been four months.

 

[PigSquealer]

Yamaha has sax oil with a fine tip just for this purpose.
Even this 1939 Martin owners guide recommends player oiling. Yamaha to this day has the same recommendation.

 

[Digger2054]

This morning I gave it an oil before playing, cleaned the pad again, it's still slow to open.

On closer inspection the pad doesn't look to in as good a condition as the others, will try and get a photo later.

 

[Digger2054]

Here's my offending pad, just got home and had a play and it seems to be behaving now, the mark where the impression of tone hole is around 10-11 o'clock was quite dark and stubborn to clean up this morning still something there that won't shift.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Whatever that is, I think that if naphtha doesn't remove it then it is something dodgy that makes me think a new pad is the only solution. If it is something absorbed into the leather (eg the graphic you mentioned above) you'd still expect the lighter fluid to clean the top surface enough to stop sticking.

 

[PigSquealer]

Cover the pad with some saran wrap. Clean the rim of the tone hole with some polish.

@Stephen Howard I don’t think he can detach the spring from a cradle on this one. I think it has a hole through the key foot.

 

[Stephen Howard]

@Stephen Howard I don’t think he can detach the spring from a cradle on this one. I think it has a hole through the key foot.

There's no key foot on a Bis Bb key - its height is regulated/limited by the A key touchpiece.
But...yeah...there might be a captive spring on the cup arm - but I thought the NWII powers the Bis Bb from a spring at the lower end of the key. Could be wrong...it's my age...

 

[Stephen Howard]

Here's my offending pad, just got home and had a play and it seems to be behaving now, the mark where the impression of tone hole is around 10-11 o'clock was quite dark and stubborn to clean up this morning still something there that won't shift.

Did you try a bit of 'gob' first?
There's nothing more effective for removing dried up saliva than yet more saliva (on a bent-double pipe-cleaner or a cotton bud). Follow it up with lighter fluid for a 'belt and braces' clean.
The pad looks more or less OK - just a bit of staining. But it might just be a sticky pad. You get that every now and again - and rolled toneholes tend to exaggerate the stiction.

Has anyone mentioned drawing some 1200 grit wet 'n dry paper across the tonehole yet?

 

[Digger2054]

Yes the bis is sprung at the lower end on the NW.

I didn't try any 'gob' but will give it a go, followed by the lighter fluid if it continues.

I've not tried wet & dry, not sure I trust myself.

What would be your suggested technique to do that?

 

[Stephen Howard]

Cut off a strip of 1200 paper just wider than the diameter of the tonehole. Place it grit side down over the tonehole, gently bring the key down and then withdraw the paper. Repeat two or three times..
A harmless procedure (with 1200 grade wet n' dry, at least) that will remove any crud still present on the tonehole rim after chemical cleaning.

 

[PigSquealer]

There's no key foot on a Bis Bb key - its height is regulated/limited by the A key touchpiece.
But...yeah...there might be a captive spring on the cup arm - but I thought the NWII powers the Bis Bb from a spring at the lower end of the key. Could be wrong...it's my age...

Guess I was having a senior citizen moment. Looking at the key I was thinking it was the B. Went completely airheaded Yeah, The spring cradle is on the lower half.