All profit supporting special needs music education and Help Musicians

Saxophones Original lacquer v re lacquer

Punchysax

Member
Messages
109
Locality
Hitchin
Hi,
what is if any the difference if any in quality of sound with a vintage re lac or original lacquer.?

Have a 1932 conn transitional tenor which was re lacquered I believe in the 60,s.
Thanks
 

Saxlicker

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,979
Locality
Breakfast room since '06 UK
You should just take the sound at face value.
It will sound different than it used to but since you don't know what it was like, what does it matter?
There is no definitive description of what happens to the inherent sound when a horn gets reacquired. There are way to many variables in what it was like to start with and what happened during the process.
Some get chemically stripped some get heavily buffed and so on.....

If I have a stab at reading between the lines I guess you want to know if people feel its inferior?
For that I'd say 'yes' the majority probably do and that, along with what a relacquer usually takes away cosmetically regarding the sharpness of engraving do tend to reduce the value.
 

Colin the Bear

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,675
Locality
Burnley bb9 9dn
I think a relacquer sounds more shiney.
Original lacquer may sound a little chipped or rubbed. ;)
 

thomsax

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,367
Locality
Sweden
I don't think a re-laquered sax sounds differnt than a bare brass if the re-laquer job is done correct. A complete overhaul included new finish as well. That's why we can find many old saxes that been re-laqured. In the old days it was impoertant to hand over a shiny sax after an overhaul.
 

Jimmymack

Member
Messages
722
Locality
London
Nobody knows unless they heard it play in 1932 and then in 1968, even then who would know what made the difference. It was common practice to relacquer horns back then and I doubt that that in itself makes much, if any, difference to how it sounds. There are too many other things that will affect the tone more profoundly, being relacqued is only an issue for collectors, and those wanting to maximise their sale price. I had a 1940s Buescher relacquer back in the day, nobody thought anything of it, it was a lovely horn with a beautiful voice that I regret selling.
 

thomsax

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,367
Locality
Sweden
Nobody knows unless they heard it play in 1932 and then in 1968, even then who would know what made the difference. It was common practice to relacquer horns back then and I doubt that that in itself makes much, if any, difference to how it sounds. There are too many other things that will affect the tone more profoundly, being relacqued is only an issue for collectors, and those wanting to maximise their sale price. I had a 1940s Buescher relacquer back in the day, nobody thought anything of it, it was a lovely horn with a beautiful voice that I regret selling.
A "The Martin Tenor" had his goldlaquerd sax goldplated. He waas afraid it should change tone/sound. The tone/sound was the same after the plating. It the set-up and other changes that make difference when it comes to tone/sound.
 

Dr G

Member
Messages
353
Locality
Northern California
A leak will make more of a difference than the lacquer.

Play it to assess its sound and response.
 

eb424

Senior Member
Messages
1,485
Locality
london
Hmm don't know I think the relaquer if done well would enhance the appearance it used to be part of a service apparantly..all I know is I have a TJ raw and have booked it in for a re laq fed up with the green on it. Even at £900 its worth the chance i like the ergos and feel of the sax. Its allready prepped really no buffing involved...i suppose it may be an issue if i sell it but id rather have a nice shiny sax...they sound better..
 

Dr G

Member
Messages
353
Locality
Northern California
Hmm don't know I think the relaquer if done well would enhance the appearance it used to be part of a service apparantly..all I know is I have a TJ raw and have booked it in for a re laq fed up with the green on it. Even at £900 its worth the chance i like the ergos and feel of the sax. Its allready prepped really no buffing involved...i suppose it may be an issue if i sell it but id rather have a nice shiny sax...they sound better..

Silver plate is more durable than lacquer - shiny too!
 

jazzdoh

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,519
Locality
West Midlands
Hmm don't know I think the relaquer if done well would enhance the appearance it used to be part of a service apparantly..all I know is I have a TJ raw and have booked it in for a re laq fed up with the green on it. Even at £900 its worth the chance i like the ergos and feel of the sax. Its allready prepped really no buffing involved...i suppose it may be an issue if i sell it but id rather have a nice shiny sax...they sound better..
Why did you not buy a lacquered Signature Custom at the time?
Are you having it relacquered or just turned into an XS version which is polished but still no lacquer?
 

thomsax

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,367
Locality
Sweden
I think the reason they stopped doing (re-)laquer jobs at saxophones techs was more an assurance issue. Lots of fires at windinstrument workshops. The practically worked with open flames in rooms/buildings where they worked/stored thinner and cellulose laquer. Old schools techs wants to hand over a shinny and clean sax. Most sax jobs leaves marks on the sax. Laquer is good for the saxophone. Silver plating is better. A shinny goldlaquer sax can be free blowing as well.
 

thomsax

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,367
Locality
Sweden
I think the big saxophone manufactors thier own plating jobs.
Hmm don't know I think the relaquer if done well would enhance the appearance it used to be part of a service apparantly..all I know is I have a TJ raw and have booked it in for a re laq fed up with the green on it. Even at £900 its worth the chance i like the ergos and feel of the sax. Its allready prepped really no buffing involved...i suppose it may be an issue if i sell it but id rather have a nice shiny sax...they sound better..
I think it's just the big saxophone manufactors did thier own plating jobs. Conn, Buescher ..... . Anderson Silver Plating in South Bend, IN are helping lots of techs/workshops with thier saxes ??
 

eb424

Senior Member
Messages
1,485
Locality
london
Why did you not buy a lacquered Signature Custom at the time?
Are you having it relacquered or just turned into an XS version which is polished but still no lacquer?
I had a hanson unlaquered and liked the look of the patina. It didn't seem to go so green. I like the ergos tone of the raw its just something i am thinking about seem to spend as much time cleaning as playing tbf..thought the sig custom was a different beast...
 

eb424

Senior Member
Messages
1,485
Locality
london

Not sure its a different beast, but they do different finishes.

If you haven't committed to the relacquer it may be more viable to sell your RAW and buy the lacquered version.
Trouble is what id lose on it would cover the cost of the re-lac then id have to top it up to buy new again...im not so sure id buy tj again so would have all the grief of setting up again..im quite happy with the sax just getting used to her...
 

rhysonsax

Well-Known Member
Café Supporter
Messages
5,123
Locality
Surrey, UK

Not sure its a different beast, but they do different finishes.

If you haven't committed to the relacquer it may be more viable to sell your RAW and buy the lacquered version.

I would like to try one (or more) of the non RAW options of the TJ Signature Custom alto but they seem to be very rare. I haven't found one in stock at a UK instrument shop so I contacted Trevor James via their website but got no response.

Rhys
 

eb424

Senior Member
Messages
1,485
Locality
london
I would like to try one (or more) of the non RAW options of the TJ Signature Custom alto but they seem to be very rare. I haven't found one in stock at a UK instrument shop so I contacted Trevor James via their website but got no response.

Rhys
Thats one reason i wouldnt buy another tj i have contacted the 5 times..bought her new and one of the pads was shimmed..i was quite miffed but just as miffed at no reply..shocking cusomer service...
 

Members online

Popular Discussions

London
Paris
New York
Los Angeles
Sydney
Moscow
New Delhi
Top Bottom