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Saxophones Opinions on Tenors from a noob...

PCthug

Member
Messages
51
Posted a thread on the Yard sale for a cheap Tenor, and wanted opinions on these Ebay ones...

These 3 i can get for about £200 (the first 2 are in collecting distance)...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220602039128&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220610343772&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320535394210&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


I have not had a reply back on these yet...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360262893015&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160435856282&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I am looking at these with a small budget in mind, and still very much a leaner, so please no flaming and snobbish remarks about how i 'need' a Yammy, lol.
 
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TomMapfumo

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,232
Location
Skabertawe, South Wales
Hi There! Of those you mention I would only be interested in the Elkhart or Selmer Prelude - both reasonable quality. John Packer produce an excellent student Tenor Sax JP042, which costs about £360, or otherwise the Bauhaus Walstein Bronze Tenor is one of the best under £500. What is your upper limit?
For under £250 I would be happy about either of the two I mention above.

Good Luck!
Kind regards
Tom:cool:
 
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PCthug

Member
Messages
51
Hi There! Of those you mention I would only be interested in the Elkhart or Selmer Prelude - both reasonable quality. John Packer produce an excellent student Tenor Sax JP042, which costs about £360, or otherwise the Bauhaus Walstein Bronze Tenor is one of the best under £500. What is your upper limit?
For under £250 I would be happy about either of the two I mention above.

Good Luck!
Kind regards
Tom:cool:
I will be quite honest, i was wanting one for next to nothing, as cheap as poss, but it was my birthday on the 21st and i got £70 that i want to put to good use. I sold a few things on ebay giving me a total of about £200.
I could maybe add a bit more, but the wife was made redundant last year and we are now feeling the pinch, so i am struggling to justify this amount as it is.
I have not seen the JP or BW on ebay, so will keep my eyes open.
I was wanting one as quick as poss before i spend my birthday money on living etc, and therefore not see anything for it at all, lol.
 

dooce

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,415
Location
Daventry
I wouldn't go for the Weltklang, 'cos it's been sitting under a bed for 5 years so could be a load of trouble. Go for the most recent, or an old one that you know has been played regularly by someone moving up rather than someone who's giving up because that means it hardly ever comes out of the case. My first tenor was a B&M Champion, 80 quid, built by East German tractor builders in their lunchbreaks (and sounded like one as well) but it was utterly reliable and was all I needed for a couple of years.

On that basis of that lot, the Selmer's probably the best bet.
 
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PCthug

Member
Messages
51
There's also a Trevor James, item No. 290437393470.
They're good saxes.
Yeah i noticed that one.
My Alto is a TJ.
This one on ebay is on £155 already with almost 5 days to go, so will probably be more than i want to pay. The last one went for £280.

I am swaying towards the Corton (its the same as the BH400), and i can have it for £210. The guy seems genuine and has sent me loads of photos, and it looks immaculate. Its about 60 miles away, so i can go and view it before i buy it.
 
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PCthug

Member
Messages
51
Well, i havent bought any of those, but did buy an Elkhart II from a shop in Darlington.
It was one that they had loaned out to someone.
They are going to service it for me and i am collecting it on Wednesday.
Its a little more than i wanted to pay at £300, but i know it will be right.
Now i just ned to find the score for Average White Band's Pick up the pieces.
Cant wait.
 

Mikec

Member
Messages
201
Location
Buckinghamshire, UK
Well, i havent bought any of those, but did buy an Elkhart II from a shop in Darlington.
It was one that they had loaned out to someone.
They are going to service it for me and i am collecting it on Wednesday.
Its a little more than i wanted to pay at £300, but i know it will be right.
Now i just ned to find the score for Average White Band's Pick up the pieces.
Cant wait.
Hope you enjoy it, good blowing!
 

jonf

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,619
Location
Betelgeuse
Well, i havent bought any of those, but did buy an Elkhart II from a shop in Darlington.
It was one that they had loaned out to someone.
They are going to service it for me and i am collecting it on Wednesday.
Its a little more than i wanted to pay at £300, but i know it will be right.
Now i just ned to find the score for Average White Band's Pick up the pieces.
Cant wait.
Good stuff. I take it that was Gladstones?

I think I've got that AWB score transcribed somewhere. PM me an email address and I'll see if I can get a copy to you.
 
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PCthug

Member
Messages
51
Yeah, got it from George Gladstones.
They guys there seem to know what they are talking about.
the guy who does the repairs played Pick up the pieces on the sax i am buying and it sounded VERY good (to my untrained ear).
PM sent...
 

saxnut1966

New Member
Messages
11
Location
Dublin, Georgia, USA
Just a quick comment from a Yank from across the pond...
I have playing since about 1967. I was fortunate to have started with a new Bundy alto sax made by Selmer. Although I upgraded to Selmers and Yamahas after I got to be a more experienced player, I kept the horn until my senior year in college and it played beautifully. It actually played as well as my Mark VI and my YAS-61, so I would think it safe to say that the equipment selection is not as important as the person attached to the mouthpiece. The Bundy is a student line inexpensive horn which was designed and manufactured by one of the greatest saxophone companies in the entire world, Selmer. Here in the states, you can still obtain a used Bundy for about the same money as you are wanting to spend. I would strongly suggest staying clear of some of the cheaply made Asian market instruments that are flooding the market. You can buy a brand new alto in the box for around $300 USD and about $100 more for a tenor. Don't let the shinny new laquer fool you. These are generally a big piece of junk that will dissapoint you in a very short period of time. Shop around on Ebay a bit more and search for old Bundy, Yamaha, SML, Beusher, King, Conn, etc. These were well made horns that have withstood the tests of time and they have good overall intonation, are easy to play (VERY important when you are learning your craft) and they are well respected among even the most seasoned sax playing vets. In fact, some of John Coletrane's early recordings were performed on a Bundy tenor sax!
Good luck with the search!
Bill
 

jonf

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,619
Location
Betelgeuse
The Bundy is a student line inexpensive horn which was designed and manufactured by one of the greatest saxophone companies in the entire world, Selmer.

I would strongly suggest staying clear of some of the cheaply made Asian market instruments that are flooding the market.
I'm not sure I entirely agree with you about Bundys. Some are really good, but the one I played as a kid at school was awful. And of course, Selmer Bundy saxes were made by Selmer USA, a completely different company to Selmer Paris. Although the Conn-Selmer Corporation is the importer of Selmer Paris saxes (and a load more besides) there are no manufacturing links whatsoever between Selmer US and Selmer Paris. Never has been.

Also, whilst some Asian saxes are worthless junk, some are very good. They range from pro standard (Mauriat, made in Taiwan) through cheap, basic student models (Selmer Prelude, made in China) to unplayable rubbish. The Elkhart bought by PCThug is an example of a decent quality Asian horn which will last for years and which is at least as good as an old US made student line horn.
 

jonf

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,619
Location
Betelgeuse
Some of the Bundys were made by Keilwerth....
And pretty good. Some were also virtually Buescher Aristocrats of the early sixties, also excellent for the money. But then, some, like the later Buescher Aristocrats (which I have experience of) represent the sad decline of the once-great American sax manufacturing industry. Saxes marketed under the Conn and Buescher brands in the 1970s are pretty much an insult to their illustrious forebears.
 

saxnut1966

New Member
Messages
11
Location
Dublin, Georgia, USA
I'm not sure I entirely agree with you about Bundys. Some are really good, but the one I played as a kid at school was awful. And of course, Selmer Bundy saxes were made by Selmer USA, a completely different company to Selmer Paris. Although the Conn-Selmer Corporation is the importer of Selmer Paris saxes (and a load more besides) there are no manufacturing links whatsoever between Selmer US and Selmer Paris. Never has been.

Also, whilst some Asian saxes are worthless junk, some are very good. They range from pro standard (Mauriat, made in Taiwan) through cheap, basic student models (Selmer Prelude, made in China) to unplayable rubbish. The Elkhart bought by PCThug is an example of a decent quality Asian horn which will last for years and which is at least as good as an old US made student line horn.
You are dead to right on the manufacturing links...err..to a point. Although the Bundy was not made along side the Selmer Paris models, George M. Bundy was an employee of Henri Selmer who was asigned the US market, IE; Selmer USA. This eventually gave birth to a variety of student line and mid range horns by various manufactures for Selmer USA with a star cast of instrument designers, such as Keilworth, Haynes (Flutes), Gemeinhart, etc. Bundy saxophones were comissioned to be made originally by Buescher for Selmer USA using Buescher Aristocrat tooling and parts, though finish was not as eleborate as the Bueschers. In 1963 Selmer purchased Buescher and they continued to make Buescher, Bundy, and Selmer Signet saxophones.

Bundy and Buescher saxophones shared serial numbers up until the late 60's. The design of my particular Bundy was pretty much a Buesher copy which was a stensil design by Keilworth (former Selmer Paris designer) while at the C.G. Conn company!! Hows that for a thouroughly jacked up and confusing family tree? LOL!!! OK, so the Bundys are total bastards! Still...the older models are great horns. The new ones? Probably not so good.

You are correct in that not ALL Asian market horns are crapola. In fact I double on an "Orpheo" baritone sax on occasion that is about as good as it gets for the money. I have no idea who the manufacturer is for the Orpheo signature line of instruments but it is definely one of the good quality Asian horns out there. It's not a Selmer Paris, but it doesn't have a $14,000 price tag on it either! For a cool $2,000 it's a really great bari with keying from high F# down to low A and all the other professional features. So, yes! There are definitely exceptions out there but one should check them out carefully and play on them until you are sure of your decision.
I was a Yamaha player for years and I still use a Yamaha Tenor regularly. My LA Sax soprano is an Asian made horn and I have never had a problem with it. I wish to point out, however that I use the soprano simply as a horn to double on, NOT as my main instrument! If I were to put it through the rigors of hard professional playing I would litterally wear it out in about 10 years even with proper, regular maintenance. It just will not stand up to extreme playing over time as well as a horn such as a Yamaha, Keilworth or Selmer will.

I actually enjoy all saxes and I enjoy studying the many subtle differences each manufacturer has to offer. Whether it's a thorobred Selmer Super balanced action or a Heinz 57 variety "mutt" like my old Bundy...you just gotta love 'em!!!

Damn! All this sax talk has given me the itch.
Think I'll play some jazz.
Regards...
Bill
 

jonf

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,619
Location
Betelgeuse
You're damned right about how complicated it can be. Buescher Aristocrats, the good ones, were pretty much copied into early, solid Bundys. Then later Bundys, no so good, were copied and called........Buescher Aristocrats. As you say, a fascinating and interesting subject to fill in the times between playing sax.
 
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