Noodling on the diminished scale

Discussion in 'Playing' started by BrianJoeSandy, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. BrianJoeSandy

    BrianJoeSandy Member

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    Here's a nice Middle East sounding exercise. Play a pattern on 1 b9 #9 3 then copy starting on the b5 and you have played on all 8 notes of the diminshed scale. No need to think about sharps and flats just STS and repeat up a tone. Good ear training.
    Looks good on the piano in C - two whites with 2 blacks between then two blacks with 2 whites between
     
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  3. Ivan

    Ivan Undecided

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    Could you please give example notes, in C @BrianJoeSandy ?

    The nomenclature you use is no doubt correct but is utterly impenetrable to the likes of me
     
  4. spike

    spike Well-Known Member

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    The full diminished scale alternates whole and half steps, dominant diminished scales alternate half and whole steps.
    Scales are either
    one half one half one half . . . . etc.
    or
    half one half one half one . . . . etc
    Dim chords are stacked minor thirds.
    I prefer to use chord based licks to give an outside feeling to a chord change - dropping a half tone up or down into the next chord.
    Whole tone scales are also very useful in that respect. (Stevie Wonder's intro to Sunshne of my life).
    I'm not theory based player, I've got absolutely no idea, I just play what sounds good.
    Check out "Old Nick" Slominsky's book - that'll keep you busy for a while.
    But don't overdo it or you'll end up sounding like a Coltrane clone.
    It boils down to getting all these sounds, scales, chords, notes and intervals into your head, into yer heart and deep down in yer soul. >:)
     
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  5. BrianJoeSandy

    BrianJoeSandy Member

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    That's going to take a while!
     
  6. brianr

    brianr Senior Member

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    I wouldnt worry about it.

    I spent years learning these scales inside out. knew them well.

    but I didnt really have a clue what to do with them, in a musical manner.

    if I had my time again I would forget them and get in to diminished triads. easier to hear than scales and also to apply.
    Not that they were a waste of time and they helped my fluency/technique/whatever.
    but i could have spent my time on more important stuff. mainly hearing what they are about.

    To me, diminished sounds are basically about tension wanting to release.
    chords are easier to hear than scales. scales can come later, if at all.

    lately ive been alternating between a minor triad and diminished 7th chord a semi tone below the root of the minor triad.

    so D minor triad and c sharp diminished 7 .

    So your notes are D F and A for minor triad.
    C sharp, E , G and Bb for diminished.

    all of the 4 notes of the diminished will "want" to resolve to one of the minor triad notes.

    So play a bar ( 8 quavers ) of D minor triad. Then a bar of the diminished.
    on the 8th quaver of the diminished, whatever note you end up on, hold it and listen to where it "wants" to go.
    It WILL want to resolve to a note of the minor triad. either up or down. try both.

    experiment. listen to where the diminished "wants" to go. a bar of each, for hours on end:)

    i feel this hearing stuff is much more important than rattling around on a scale aimlessly.
     
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  7. BrianJoeSandy

    BrianJoeSandy Member

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    Here's a favourite Stan Gets almost diminished lick
    3b 2 1 5 5b 4 k3 2b 4 5b 5 1
    Swing pairs first three notes and last one in an octave above the others.
    Who recognises it?
     
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  8. jbtsax

    jbtsax old and opinionated

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    k3???
     
  9. altissimo

    altissimo Well-Known Member

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    it's one of the Karakoram mountains in Pakistan
     
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  10. jbtsax

    jbtsax old and opinionated

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    In jazz the dominant 7th chord (V7) commonly has added or altered tones to create color or tension before the chord resolves to the I or vi.

    These altered tones include b9, #9, #4 (b5), #5 (b6). The skeletal or important notes of the chord which help to identify it are the root, 3rd, and b7th. When all of these notes are strung together they form the diminished whole tone scale, also called the "altered" or "super locrian" scale. The neat thing about this scale is that once the 3 diminished scales and 2 whole tone scales are learned, it is an easy matter to play the first four notes of the diminished scale and end with the four notes of the whole tone scale.


    upload_2017-9-15_15-57-44.jpeg
     
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