Beginner Sax Newbie doubts about buying used

[Account Closed 8973]

Disclaimer: Not sure this is the perfect section for this (I hope it is) since it's sort of a miscellaneous question, really.

Hello everyone,

I want to find a decent tenor to start playing (what a surprise, right?).

The used market in my area is non-existent, meaning only cheap, horrible horns are sold here. On the other side of the coin, tho, there's one specialised shop that also does repairs and everything, selling very expensive horns. The least expensive is a Super Rampone & Cazzani, selling for 1300 euros.

I had people telling me they can be hit or miss, but that for that price Yamahas are more bullet proof or straight-up better horns (which surprised me considering Rampones should be custom made). Nonetheless, I'm going to visit the shop with my teacher, still waiting for him to arrange a date so we can go.

Meanwhile, I do want to get as many opinions as possible about this issue. The alternatives I can think of is to either surrender and buy a cheap horn or buy on ebay or online.

That terrifies me.

The idea may be to buy a used Yamaha (YTS-32 or what have you) and then have it repaired for a few hundred bucks. However:

- Who knows if the horn sounds properly?
- Who knows if it doesn't get damaged?
- Who knows if the guy selling it won't pack it properly, even if I show him how to do it or I tell him to follow some guidelines?
- Who knows if whatever may need to be done to the horn later will cost me MORE than just a few hundred bucks?

And these are just the questions I can come up with, but perhaps there may be more.

All in all, my teacher said that since I don't know whether I'll continue in half a year it's okay to buy a cheap horn if no deals can be found. He's a big against buying used online pretty much for the same doubts I have.

As for me, I'm okay with paying for a decent instrument because I think playing on a good instrument is important as a musicians. But I'm not okay with spending a fortune for a mediocre instrument, so if people here confirm me in mass that the Super isn't worth it, I may consider buying online. All the same, tho, if you guys share the same opinion as my teacher... well then, Ramponi will be.

Finally, for those who'll recommend to buy used despite the risks (I'd really appreciate it if you could motivate whatever opinion you may have, by the way), I'd like to know what are the horns I should go for and what would the price range for a good deal should be for each one of them. The thing is, I don't really know what separates a good deal from a potential scam, so if you've got information on that regard that too would be extremely helpful.

Ok, that's it! Can't think of anything else to ask, so I'll stop now. (aha) I really hope to hear from you guys 'cause beside my teacher I have absolutely nobody to talk about these things in person.

Have a wonderful weekend!

 

[Sunray]

Check out the Yard Sale, trusted sellers [I Believe 🙂] and some nice horns ...

Here is one of mine, but you may not want to spend quite so much ...

Yanagisawa Tenor

 

[Ivan]

There are a few factors to include in your calculations

Warranty... Does buying locally mean you get a warranty and/or follow-up maintenance?

Postal purchases: there is a risk of damage in transit

Buying unseen: you won't know how the real horn matches the advert until you've paid. You don't know if the horn feels comfortable in your hands until you've paid

Play test by someone you know (your teacher) who can already play: can be helpful if you are just starting out

Reliability and/or resale value of horn make: as you have found out Yamaha has a good reputation in this category

 

[Account Closed 8973]

Check out the Yard Sale, trusted sellers [I Believe 🙂] and some nice horns ...

Here is one of mine, but you may not want to spend quite so much ...

Yanagisawa Tenor

The problem with these is that they're way too expensive, as you have guessed already.

I'd still appreciate any input from you, tho.

Thanks for writing.

 

[Account Closed 8973]

There are a few factors to include in your calculations

Warranty... Does buying locally mean you get a warranty and/or follow-up maintenance?

Postal purchases: there is a risk of damage in transit

Buying unseen: you won't know how the real horn matches the advert until you've paid. You don't know if the horn feels comfortable in your hands until you've paid

Play test by someone you know (your teacher) who can already play: can be helpful if you are just starting out

Reliability and/or resale value of horn make: as you have found out Yamaha has a good reputation in this category

I don't think when it comes to private selling you don't get any additional rights beside using the item you purchased...

I took everything you said into consideration already, but I still can't make up my mind about what to do.

 

[Ivan]

I don't think when it comes to private selling you don't get any additional rights beside using the item you purchased...

I took everything you said into consideration already, but I still can't make up my mind about what to do.

I haven't heard bad things about R&C, though it's likely that any discussions have been about the top end models

When you are starting out, what you really need is something reliable and comfortable to play

Maybe you have too much temptation

Unclutter your mind, Grasshhopper

(And wait for someone elses opinion too)

 

[Account Closed 8973]

I haven't heard bad things about R&C, though it's likely that any discussions have been about the top end models

When you are starting out, what you really need is something reliable and comfortable to play

Maybe you have too much temptation

Unclutter your mind, Grasshhopper

(And wait for someone elses opinion too)

Thank you for your input.

What would an uncluttered mind would do for you?

P.S. Also, is it impossible to edit previous posts? I saw some grammar mistakes I wish to edit.

 

[Ivan]

P.S. Also, is it impossible to edit previous posts? I saw some grammar mistakes I wish to edit.

I think you get permission to edit once you have made a few more posts and proven you ain't a robot

An edit button will appear at the bottom of your posts... I think there's a time limit on the edit function, but I don't know exactly for how long... seems to be about a day

 

[Ivan]

What would an uncluttered mind would do for you?

Well,

It is easy to angonise over the possibilities when it comes to sax gear, largely because there isn't one true solution

So taking a less complex route to buying your first tenor, that doesn't involve computing possible micro-benefits against multiple micro-risks, might be a nice relaxed way to start your playing career

The desire for a better sax will plague you soon enough. And we haven't even moved on to mouthpieces

NB. If you have an unlimited budget, there is something to be said for buying a top horn right at the start, the idea being that knowing it is all you will ever need will extinguish any yearning for an upgrade or a change. However even that doesn't work for everyone

 

[Account Closed 8973]

Well,

It is easy to angonise over the possibilities when it comes to sax gear, largely because there isn't one true solution

So taking a less complex route to buying your first tenor, that doesn't involve computing possible micro-benefits against multiple micro-risks, might be a nice relaxed way to start your playing career

The desire for a better sax will plague you soon enough. And we haven't even moved on to mouthpieces

NB. If you have an unlimited budget, there is something to be said for buying a top horn right at the start, the idea being that knowing it is all you will ever need will extinguish any yearning for an upgrade or a change. However even that doesn't work for everyone

I understand your point better now, thank you.

In practice though, are you suggesting that if the teacher says the Rampone's fine, should I go for it even if it's overpriced? Would you say that buying a Yamaha on ebay may not be the best move right now?

I won't ever seek you out in the real world to make you pay will your suggestion turn out to be a bad one, so speak your mind freely! (aha)

 

[Pete Thomas]

The least expensive is a Super Rampone & Cazzani, selling for 1300 euros.

The Super isn't their top of the range (such as the R1)

Yamahas are more bullet proof or straight-up better horns (which surprised me considering Rampones should be custom made).

I'm sure you can get custom made Rampones if you enquire at the factory, but basically they are production models. And if anyone was to get a custom Rampone, I doubt they base it on a Super. But who knows? But the R1 are among the best I've ever played.

I wouldn't agree that yamahas are more bullet proof, nor straight-up better horns.

 

[lydian]

Buying a used sax is NOT like buying a used car. You're very unlikely to get a lemon because of some hidden flaw that can't ever be corrected. It's usually pretty obvious, even to a novice, if a horn is in bad shape. But I do recommend learning first hand what a new horn looks and feels like, so you have a basis for comparison. So try to find one in a shop sometime or try out a friend's horn first.

More subtle things that a novice can miss are a bent body or toneholes that aren't level. But even those things can be fixed without breaking the bank. Worn out pads, corrosion, mushy action, clicky mechanics (missing corks/felts) and neck pull down are fairly obvious. If it looks and feels terrible, don't buy it. But when in doubt, get a sax player friend to help you out.

 

[Jimmymack]

If your teacher is prepared to go with you to a shop that also services saxophones and he will be able to try out the horn and make a judgment then I would say that is, beyond doubt the way to go. If he finds things that need fixing he can sort this out for you.

Decide your spending limit. You might find they have something better that just a bit more than you want to spend, then it can get difficult, so know your price limit. If you can get a reliable horn for what you can afford get it and come back later when you’re more experienced and know that you will continue playing. Get the best you can afford and trust your teacher to know if it’s a decent horn.

Buying online is asking for trouble.

 

[Account Closed 8973]

If your teacher is prepared to go with you to a shop that also services saxophones and he will be able to try out the horn and make a judgment then I would say that is, beyond doubt the way to go.

Honestly, if I lived in an area with a bigger market I would have preferred this. The problem is there's very little choice. Most saxophones sold in the used market are pieces of junk here.

 

[Account Closed 8973]

The Super isn't their top of the range (such as the R1)

I'm sure you can get custom made Rampones if you enquire at the factory, but basically they are production models. And if anyone was to get a custom Rampone, I doubt they base it on a Super. But who knows? But the R1 are among the best I've ever played.

I wouldn't agree that yamahas are more bullet proof, nor straight-up better horns.

All things considered, would you say a restored Super would be worth 1300 euros?

 

[Account Closed 8973]

Buying a used sax is NOT like buying a used car. You're very unlikely to get a lemon because of some hidden flaw that can't ever be corrected. It's usually pretty obvious, even to a novice, if a horn is in bad shape. But I do recommend learning first hand what a new horn looks and feels like, so you have a basis for comparison. So try to find one in a shop sometime or try out a friend's horn first.

More subtle things that a novice can miss are a bent body or toneholes that aren't level. But even those things can be fixed without breaking the bank. Worn out pads, corrosion, mushy action, clicky mechanics (missing corks/felts) and neck pull down are fairly obvious. If it looks and feels terrible, don't buy it. But when in doubt, get a sax player friend to help you out.

So like why are online adverts of saxophones even a thing? What's the point if you're supposed to try it out yourself before purchasing it?

 

[DavidUK]

Hey, Welcome. I buy a lot of used saxophones. I buy in person and online (by post) and make few mistakes.
Firstly, you need to try and establish if the seller is a player or experienced with saxophones. Most sellers are NOT. They inherited it, or it's their son's, or they found it in the loft. With these you stand a high chance of buying something not as described. They won't know if it plays, if the pads are good, if it has dents/dings or other damage.

If you buy from a player they can assure you of its condition. As a "beginner" buyer these are the only ones you should consider. If it arrives and isn't satisfactory you can claim via PayPal (there's NO other way you should be paying remotely).

But how will you know about its condition unless you are an experienced player yourself? Take it to your teacher, that's how. If it needs minor fixing your teacher will know a good repairer. Expect to have to have some repairs done, whatever you buy, and make allowance in your budget for this. As an example I bought a Yamaha YAS-62 by post recently, spotted some minor dings in the ad photos, and spent £20 having these professionally removed and the bell untwisted (which I didn't know about).

It is far better to buy in person but the sax you want may be hundreds of miles away and your teacher may not be prepared to travel.
If your budget is 1300 Euros, my advice would be to buy a Grassi Professional 2000 tenor in Italy.
Not a Grassi Professional, it MUST have the 2000 added.
I don't know the Rampone Super but my Professional 2000 tenor was a great horn, or par with a YTS-62 in my opinion.

I can probably find you a few to look at in Italy, whether you visit or buy by post.

Which area are you in?

For example:

Annuncio non trovato - Mercatino Musicale

Annuncio non trovato - Mercatino Musicale

I guess you found the above web site? Search for Yamaha there too. There are a number within your budget.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Buying used on a budget, without a play test. Yamaha every time.
Buying new on a budget without a play test. Second hand Yamaha every time.
Well made. Easy to fix. Easy to live with. Play in tune. Hold their price. You can't go wrong.
Avoid dents or signs of rough handling and dodgy sellers.

The yard sale here may have other options.
Edit. And there's always @DavidUK . 😉

 

[Jimmymack]

Yard sale is worth checking. If you buy online you should also budget for a service.

 

[jbtsax]

I don't know if any music stores in your area rent (hire) instruments for beginning players to try to see if they are going to like playing the saxophone and want to stay with it. It requires a small investment to get the use of a better quality instrument. Some of the stores in my area even apply the amount paid in rent to the purchase price of a new or used instrument.