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Saxophones New B&S as well as Weltklang Print Materials

helen

Member
Messages
149
I just finished adding some very important updates to my website. These will be of interest to owners/would-be owners of the modern B&S horns, as well the vintage Weltklang horns B&S made back in the day.

The updates are in the form of scanned, vintage print materials from both VEB & VMI. If you have been looking for info on your horn, I might just have what you are looking for.

First up, Weltklang:

FYI, Weltklang was a division of VEB Blechblas- und Signal-Instrumenten-Fabrik (B&S).

I just spent what seemed like the better part of a week working on and uploading a 14-page Weltklang folder that came from a man who used to own a music store in Oslo.

The folder contains photos and information about all the saxophones and brass winds made by Weltklang in 1980. The company did really make a wide variety of strange and interesting brass instruments that we rarely see outside of European brass bands.

I did decide to upload the folder in its entirety so that it might be useful to brass players as well, but for us here, these are the pages of the greatest interest:

Covers (inside) Contains a guide to the finish & model codes used throughout

Alto 231 & Tenor 241 - the model without a high F# key

Alto 232 & Tenor 242 - with a high F# key

Bari 252

Soprano 262

The folder's main navigation page can be found here.

I hope you folks find this info useful. If nothing else, it adds towards the body of knowledge of the brand.


=================================================================================

Then there is all the modern B&S stuff:

It can be found in the Vogtländische Musikinstrumentenfabrik GmbH Markneukirchen (VMI) section of Bassic Sax.

VMI is the acronym for the parent company that made B&S saxophones AFTER Germany's reunification.

Codera Brochure

1992 David Guardala Pamphlet

1994 David Guardala Brochure

2001 Series Alto Brochure

2001 Series Tenor Brochure

B&S Saxophones in 1999

They now join the following Medusa brochures that I have had for a couple of years now.

Medusa Saxophone Brochure

B&S Medusa Saxophone Dealer Prospectus
 

just saxes

Member
Commercial Supporter
Messages
84
I just finished adding some very important updates to my website. These will be of interest to owners/would-be owners of the modern B&S horns, as well the vintage Weltklang horns B&S made back in the day.

The updates are in the form of scanned, vintage print materials from both VEB & VMI. If you have been looking for info on your horn, I might just have what you are looking for.

First up, Weltklang:

FYI, Weltklang was a division of VEB Blechblas- und Signal-Instrumenten-Fabrik (B&S).

I just spent what seemed like the better part of a week working on and uploading a 14-page Weltklang folder that came from a man who used to own a music store in Oslo.

The folder contains photos and information about all the saxophones and brass winds made by Weltklang in 1980. The company did really make a wide variety of strange and interesting brass instruments that we rarely see outside of European brass bands.

I did decide to upload the folder in its entirety so that it might be useful to brass players as well, but for us here, these are the pages of the greatest interest:

Covers (inside) Contains a guide to the finish & model codes used throughout

Alto 231 & Tenor 241 - the model without a high F# key

Alto 232 & Tenor 242 - with a high F# key

Bari 252

Soprano 262

The folder's main navigation page can be found here.

I hope you folks find this info useful. If nothing else, it adds towards the body of knowledge of the brand.


=================================================================================

Then there is all the modern B&S stuff:

It can be found in the Vogtländische Musikinstrumentenfabrik GmbH Markneukirchen (VMI) section of Bassic Sax.

VMI is the acronym for the parent company that made B&S saxophones AFTER Germany's reunification.

Codera Brochure

1992 David Guardala Pamphlet

1994 David Guardala Brochure

2001 Series Alto Brochure

2001 Series Tenor Brochure

B&S Saxophones in 1999

They now join the following Medusa brochures that I have had for a couple of years now.

Medusa Saxophone Brochure

B&S Medusa Saxophone Dealer Prospectus
I was a big fan of the last B&S runs, before they ceased production. Would love to see them come back, not least of all because it turns out the B&S-brand brass instruments are sold here under the Buffet umbrella, and I'd likely be able to get them. Not familiar with the recent history of B&S and whether that is even remotely possible, but it would be really great if it were.
 
OP
helen

helen

Member
Messages
149
I was a big fan of the last B&S runs, before they ceased production. Would love to see them come back, not least of all because it turns out the B&S-brand brass instruments are sold here under the Buffet umbrella, and I'd likely be able to get them. Not familiar with the recent history of B&S and whether that is even remotely possible, but it would be really great if it were.
It is very unlikely that pro B&S saxes from Germany are going to make a reappearance anytime soon--if ever.

After the company shuttered its production of the Series 2006 (Medusa), they sold the tooling to Powell for the production of the Silver Eagle. Once the Silver Eagle ceased production, I don't know what happened to the tooling. To the best of my knowledge, no one has talked about what happened to it. I'm not sure if it is some guarded trade secret, or if it just sitting in a warehouse somewhere.

In any event, B&S stopped making horns because they weren't turning a profit on saxophones--if not incurring a loss. The fact is, sax players are cheap, and want to spend as little as possible for their instruments. Period. Then end.

If sax players were more like flute or string players, European saxophone makers would still be more plentiful, and fine European craftsmanship would not be becoming more and more an oxymoron in modern saxophone production.

(Ok, now I'm ducking under my desk waiting from a reply from Steve ;) )
 

just saxes

Member
Commercial Supporter
Messages
84
It is very unlikely that pro B&S saxes from Germany are going to make a reappearance anytime soon--if ever.

After the company shuttered its production of the Series 2006 (Medusa), they sold the tooling to Powell for the production of the Silver Eagle. Once the Silver Eagle ceased production, I don't know what happened to the tooling. To the best of my knowledge, no one has talked about what happened to it. I'm not sure if it is some guarded trade secret, or if it just sitting in a warehouse somewhere.

In any event, B&S stopped making horns because they weren't turning a profit on saxophones--if not incurring a loss. The fact is, sax players are cheap, and want to spend as little as possible for their instruments. Period. Then end.

If sax players were more like flute or string players, European saxophone makers would still be more plentiful, and fine European craftsmanship would not be becoming more and more an oxymoron in modern saxophone production.

(Ok, now I'm ducking under my desk waiting from a reply from Steve ;) )
Awesome, informative post. :big thumbs up: (I don't know how to do smileys on here yet lol)

Those Powell horns actually have parts of mine on them! I think it's OK and not impolitic to let that out of the bag, now. The C#/B hinge linkages came from me, via the Crescent factory. I don't think anybody but them and me knew that, til now. They were very much a pleasure to assist, and I felt like I was dealing with deeply honorable people the entire time.
 

just saxes

Member
Commercial Supporter
Messages
84
Wait...I should add that I have not actually seen the final products in person, though I do remember seeing pics. I do not remember whether I saw the slider linkages on them lol -- probably I did because if I didn't I think that would've disappointed me, which would have been memorable.
 

thomsax

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,675
In any event, B&S stopped making horns because they weren't turning a profit on saxophones--if not incurring a loss.
B&S knew who to make horns. But they were not so good selling them. It was about tradition. Many brands had thier saxes made by B&S and sold them under thier own names. That was easy when the iron curtain existed. B&S was a part of TA and JA group. I think it's possible to make a saxophone in Europe. We have the new technology and also the knowhow. But why should we built saxes when we can earn much more money in making other hightech products in huge volumes and with higher profits? To make a saxophone in Europe you need a owner(s) that is willing to put in the money. It's easier if the owner likes and plays the saxophone. Today the saxophone business is more about brand holding than making saxes.
 

MMM

Senior Member
Messages
889
I just finished adding some very important updates to my website. These will be of interest to owners/would-be owners of the modern B&S horns, as well the vintage Weltklang horns B&S made back in the day.

The updates are in the form of scanned, vintage print materials from both VEB & VMI. If you have been looking for info on your horn, I might just have what you are looking for.

First up, Weltklang:

FYI, Weltklang was a division of VEB Blechblas- und Signal-Instrumenten-Fabrik (B&S).

I just spent what seemed like the better part of a week working on and uploading a 14-page Weltklang folder that came from a man who used to own a music store in Oslo.

The folder contains photos and information about all the saxophones and brass winds made by Weltklang in 1980. The company did really make a wide variety of strange and interesting brass instruments that we rarely see outside of European brass bands.

I did decide to upload the folder in its entirety so that it might be useful to brass players as well, but for us here, these are the pages of the greatest interest:

Covers (inside) Contains a guide to the finish & model codes used throughout

Alto 231 & Tenor 241 - the model without a high F# key

Alto 232 & Tenor 242 - with a high F# key

Bari 252

Soprano 262

The folder's main navigation page can be found here.

I hope you folks find this info useful. If nothing else, it adds towards the body of knowledge of the brand.


=================================================================================

Then there is all the modern B&S stuff:

It can be found in the Vogtländische Musikinstrumentenfabrik GmbH Markneukirchen (VMI) section of Bassic Sax.

VMI is the acronym for the parent company that made B&S saxophones AFTER Germany's reunification.

Codera Brochure

1992 David Guardala Pamphlet

1994 David Guardala Brochure

2001 Series Alto Brochure

2001 Series Tenor Brochure

B&S Saxophones in 1999

They now join the following Medusa brochures that I have had for a couple of years now.

Medusa Saxophone Brochure

B&S Medusa Saxophone Dealer Prospectus
Great info and resource, as always, Helen! Thank you!
 

just saxes

Member
Commercial Supporter
Messages
84
B&S knew who to make horns. But they were not so good selling them. It was about tradition. Many brands had thier saxes made by B&S and sold them under thier own names. That was easy when the iron curtain existed. B&S was a part of TA and JA group. I think it's possible to make a saxophone in Europe. We have the new technology and also the knowhow. But why should we built saxes when we can earn much more money in making other hightech products in huge volumes and with higher profits? To make a saxophone in Europe you need a owner(s) that is willing to put in the money. It's easier if the owner likes and plays the saxophone. Today the saxophone business is more about brand holding than making saxes.
Wow. That jarred some memories loose. I may have some TA/JA literature somewhere, and there's a small chance it'll turn up in the near future, because I have some moving and rearranging to do. I'll post it and offer copies later, if it turns up.

What you say about brand/manufacturing is mostly true, but it also depends on nation of manufacturing origin, as far as what is or isn't different between brands. PRC-manufactured horns from the same factories of origin differ from each other in some different ways than ROC "OEM" offerings. I think it is more possible to attain some brand uniqueness, as far as actually having a different product from others, working with an ROC factory. A PRC factory will definitely promise sole-proprietorship of design options if you teach them to do something, but it will most likely be a lie, and they will offer your design to all their customers both while you buy from them and afterward. I could see an ROC factory actually following up on its word in this respect, but it's hard to see a PRC factory doing it unless it made "bottom line" sense. An ROC factory might honor the contract even if dishonoring it was more profitable.

I would imagine I'm not the only one who is trying to maintain some brand differences in other ways. I don't want to get into all the things I'm doing and thinking about doing, but the goal is always to offer a product that actually is unique, not just uniquely marketed. Some are really about that, some aren't, but I'm sure I'm not alone.

There is some dumb BS around the web about my Crescent line, generated by people who don't know what they're talking about. I can maybe discuss it with a little less automatic suspicion in reception since the original Crescent ("i") line is defunct. I made significant changes to all of them that differentiated them from the product that left their factory (e.g. changing toneholes, correcting flawed notes that were correctible, etc.), and I specifically never shared these corrections with the factory because then they would just do them for everybody, and that would have damaged the value of my own line.

So, it's not all bullsh** when people make claims about a unique product, but no doubt some of it is.
 
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