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My solo was shot down!

Mike

Senior Member
Messages
540
LOL, this was an online collaboration where within the span of approx 30 seconds I laid down an improvisation, which was my interpretation. Not yours, not the next guy's, but mine, in how I think. Usually, I never get into the 'prospect' of audience acceptability, but this was a rare case and so I was playfully curious how the solo would stand up, hence, this thread. Apparently some liked it and some did not. It was not overwhelmingly negative. The band's contingent option was obviously exercised into plan B, whatever that may be which presently has nothing to do with me. People get paid to do things like that, as in market research, which is not a definitive science, just like a critic gets paid to simply state their opinion. When music is presented in any venue it's hit or miss.
I'm not into marketing so why would this apply to me. Those individuals asked me to participate in a small way and it's not my concern where the piece goes after that, even if they decided they wanted to use it. This is not a live act, and they do not perform live at all actually. They are an online band so how would one figure out the audience? Go door to door and provide a questionnaire based on their likes and dislikes concerning art?

Incidentally, I don't think I have to 'understand' art in order to enjoy it .... it seems to imply analysis, which I think may get in the way of appreciation.
I surely don't understand Mendelsohn any more than I do Messiaen ..... but I do know which gives me pleasure and which does not

Why are you telling me this? I don't understand the correlation. I never implied that we have to understand art in order to enjoy it.
 

Saxade

Senior Member
Messages
284
Locality
Tasmania
Why are you telling me this? I don't understand the correlation. I never implied that we have to understand art in order to enjoy it.

I agree with you on this... your interpretation is your Art .. but the bravest thing about an Artist is when they put it on exhibition... for every one to criticise ... you are goin to get a Wide variety of opinions.... Good luck

Adrian
 

Rogerb

Member
Messages
753
Locality
Costa Blanca, Spain
"Why are you telling me this? I don't understand the correlation. I never implied that we have to understand art in order to enjoy it. "

Posts #27 to #30 incl were all about 'understanding' ..... I merely gave my POV on this.

I have tried listening to free jazz, and to Messiaen's music, enough times to understand that the 'head v. brick wall' saying applies, for me ... "It is better when I stop". I just don't like it.

And, with respect, I feel the same about this clip ..... for me it is a backing track with musical notes on a saxophone played over it One appears to have no relationship with the other.
As Eric Morecambe once said .... "the right notes,...etc" :)[/B][/I]

(But I would like to have half of the soloist's playing skill.)

The questions were asked "Who decides what will work for an audience? How is that done? " .... I simply attempted to address them in a logical and 'businesslike' manner.

"Marketing", in the broadest sense, is something that is necessary for anyone who is asked to do something, especially where there is a possibility/likelihood of payment, unless they have plenty of time and money to waste.
I am basically lazy and hate to do work which turns-out to have been unnecessary , so, if someone were to say to me "Play us a solo to go with this backing, and if we like it we'll pay you" ....
(extremely unlikely with my lack of skill :) ) ....... I'd feel it obligatory to ask some questions, before plunging-in and 'doing my own thing', in the hope that it would satisfy the need which prompted the request.
Not being an experienced musician I can't say what those questions would/should be ..... maybe something like "What sort of style/tempo did you have in mind?" ..... just something to re-assure me that we were not going-off in completely opposite directions. (Actually "WHY?" is usually a very good starting point .... "Why do you want/need it done?", "Why ME?", etc)
That's 'marketing' ...asking what are, IMO, vital questions, about what the 'customer' wants, before thinking about trying to satisfy him/her!
 
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Mike

Senior Member
Messages
540
I agree with you on this... your interpretation is your Art .. but the bravest thing about an Artist is when they put it on exhibition... for every one to criticise ... you are goin to get a Wide variety of opinions.... Good luck

Adrian


We concur Saxade! Thank you! I respect the freedom in opinion and they do serve a valuable purpose, naturally. I don't dimiss any one of them nor would I ever want to, just as long as the opinions are confined to individual status. When opinion cascades into the assumption of others, then it negates the purpose and compromises the definition of opinion.
I could never be embarrassed with what I produce and as my Soundclick page indicates, I bare my soul! lol...

I appreciate your post Adrian!

Ralph wrote:
Posts #27 to #30 incl were all about 'understanding' ..... I merely gave my POV on this.

I have tried listening to free jazz, and to Messiaen's music, enough times to understand that the 'head v. brick wall' saying applies, for me ... "It is better when I stop". I just don't like it.

And, with respect, I feel the same about this clip ..... for me it is a backing track with musical notes on a saxophone played over it One appears to have no relationship with the other.
As Eric Morecambe once said .... "the right notes,...etc" [/B][/I]

(But I would like to have half of the soloist's playing skill.)

The questions were asked "Who decides what will work for an audience? How is that done? " .... I simply attempted to address them in a logical and 'businesslike' manner.

"Marketing", in the broadest sense, is something that is necessary for anyone who is asked to do something, especially where there is a possibility/likelihood of payment, unless they have plenty of time and money to waste.
I am basically lazy and hate to do work which turns-out to have been unnecessary , so, if someone were to say to me "Play us a solo to go with this backing, and if we like it we'll pay you" ....
(extremely unlikely with my lack of skill ) ....... I'd feel it obligatory to ask some questions, before plunging-in and 'doing my own thing', in the hope that it would satisfy the need which prompted the request.
Not being an experienced musician I can't say what those questions would/should be ..... maybe something like "What sort of style/tempo did you have in mind?" ..... just something to re-assure me that we were not going-off in completely opposite directions. (Actually "WHY?" is usually a very good starting point .... "Why do you want/need it done?", "Why ME?", etc)
That's 'marketing' ...asking what are, IMO, vital questions, about what the 'customer' wants, before thinking about trying to satisfy him/her!

Oh, it appeared you were trying to steer me right. I have a poor short term memory. I have no idea what I wrote that many posts ago! It appeared to come out of nowhere.......As I once told Kev, I'm doing the best that I can in a 2D environment.
Yeah, I understand you not liking Messiaen's music. It's not the right fit for you and what would be the reasoning for you to continue trying to understand it, right? This isn't about growth, it's about being ridiculously sidetracked where energy could be better spent on something that has personal appeal.
I don't think it's admirable to knock oneself over the head in trying to figure out anything!

Yes, I can respect that the solo had no intrinsic value for you. Although some will argue that the solo was indeed extrinsic. However, not from where I'm standing because even though the musician's and I had no physical encounter, I indeed heard what I had to play to and in that reality I responded, according to my reality appropriately, and so there was an intrinsic value to how I approached it.
The universal reality is that it's either liked or disliked. There is nothing universal or definitive that the solo was wrong.
Charles Ives would superimpose two completey different compositions together that he wrote which had nothing to do with one or the other. Yet, he felt it sounded good. It's a personal observation in how sound rings true to the composer/musician/improviser/listener. If I did that it wouldn't be me but me trying to mimic Charles Ives's technique. He may have had a good reason artisitically, who knows. I certainly wouldn't but if someone like Ives did I'll respect his imagination.

Marketing...............
But that's just it Roger, I didn't want or need to ask questions mainly because I didn't care what the outcome would be. I didn't want my own efforts tarnished by having someone else interfere in the process. If I asked questions, then I wouldn't have wanted to do it. I only did this for the sake of art as well as it was out of usual stream of thought. How I handled it I was pleased. The fact that they didn't like it was up to them. As I mentioned my thread based on this solo was out of a playfull curiosity and it might invoke intrigue, which by the views (708) I was correct. This sort of thing brings about good dialogue. Personally, I felt no obligation to ask them anything in how I 'should' play. This was for free and free is the operative word. If they were getting something for free they're going to get my approach and certainly not theirs. Obviously it's up to them to either like or dislike. If money was exchanged then that changes things for obvious reasons and so issues of marketing would have been discussed.
 
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Rogerb

Member
Messages
753
Locality
Costa Blanca, Spain
Thanks for the detailed reply, Mike. I especially appreciated the first paragraph!

Although there are some parts of the rest which pass me by completely, I think have a better understanding of your motivations.

I think that, because they are so different from how I'd have felt, I was very confused by the whole thread....just couldn't relate to it,

The fog has lifted slightly!

Cheers
Roger
 

Mike

Senior Member
Messages
540
Thanks for the detailed reply, Mike. I especially appreciated the first paragraph!

Although there are some parts of the rest which pass me by completely, I think have a better understanding of your motivations.

I think that, because they are so different from how I'd have felt, I was very confused by the whole thread....just couldn't relate to it,

The fog has lifted slightly!

Cheers
Roger

Your very welcome Roger!
I could easily understand if I seem a bit eccentric. Most eccentrics are....lol....
Getting different sounds with instruments, for me, is like playing with toys. What kid doesn't enjoy playing any ole thing just to hear the different sounds that come out of it? It's the experimentation that children find fascinating. They're not concerned about tradition....It's all new and exciting and that's how I think.
I still find that fascination with sounds not ordinarily displayed, only I chose a long time ago to document the sounds I produced in recordings and through time I learned how to be somewhat cohesive.
I love playing with my toys and seeing what I can do with it. When it comes to music I'm definitely like a child and children must play. For instance, I enjoy playing with my grandson's truck which makes all sorts of sounds. If you keep clicking it in various ways all sorts of rhythms come out of it. The potential is there if I try my best to be as musical as I can with it. It's about creating sequential sounds. If applied with focus a composition could be written simply out of manipulating various toys, just like his truck. I'm sure this is no surprise, but it's just not in the general stream of thought when creating music. It depends on what parameters we choose for ourselves. I never had any to begin with.

For me, the source isn't as important as the idea and that's what has always motivated me.

It's just a matter of time when he gets tired of the truck and then I could play with it on a permanent basis! lol....He always interrupts me!

I'm glad we're seeing eye to eye Roger!

My best,
Mike
 
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