Beginner My Chops Fatigue More Quickly on the Sax?!?

Twistofer

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I'm trying to get a couple of opinions. I'm an older beginner. I've played clarinet for about 5 years and have switched to the Tenor Sax. I occasionally play my clarinet and can go about 2 hours without too much fatigue, but can only play about 40 minutes on my Sax. How is this possible? I play a Cannonball Vintage Reborn, Selmer Soloist C* with a Rico Royal 2 - 2 1/2. Any Thoughts?
 
Keep practicing, it will improve. I can play all day on alto but tenor wears me out after a few hours and baritone is worse. The embouchure can take it but pushing all that air takes some effort and stamina.
 
Ho
Keep practicing, it will improve. I can play all day on alto but tenor wears me out after a few hours and baritone is worse. The embouchure can take it but pushing all that air takes some effort and stamina.
How odd! I go the opposite - all day on Bari, the only thing that stops me eventually is the weight (after 4 hours or so, I start to tire) Soprano is about an hour, Alto and Tenor somewhere in between - maybe 2-2.5 hours.
 
Try a really relaxed embouchure, pushing the mp further on to compensate the pitch.

Use a softer reed, as long as you can still get your top notes.

Deep breathing exercises (or walking smartly up steep hills, as I do, which has other benefits). Give up smoking, if you do (tho' all the greats seemed to either have a sax or a ciggy (jazz ciggy or otherwise) permanently installed. Mind you, they all died young...)

Try a harness rather than a strap. I use a very inexpensive one and it makes a tremendous difference. I can't remember what firm I got it from on ebay, but it is this sort: http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/saxophone-harness

Posture can make a difference. Standing still is very fatiguing. Just a bit of shuffling or strolling around while you play makes a lot of difference.

If none of these, check that you haven't left your socks in the bell 🙂
 
I would try a softer reed, mine tires quickly on a harder reed 🙁
Yep.
Trying to play a reed which is too hard is a mug's game. Sandpaper will fix it.

As an alternative I swop to a mp which takes harder reeds. After time it becomes broken in and will be usable on my favourite mp.

This probably breaks several theories of how one should go about things, but if you play more than one sax what's the difference... like having more than one model of car available to drive, I reckon being able to adapt improves one's ability.

Works with girlfriends, too.
 
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There is a real contradiction in the OP's statement. The clarinet embouchure requires a great deal more exertion and muscle strength than any of the saxophone embouchures because the clarinet plays at the top of its mouthpiece pitch. That would normally translate to a clarinet player being able to play for longer periods on the tenor sax than on the clarinet before embouchure muscle fatigue kicks in.

Some clarinet players have learned to play by using the body of the clarinet as a "lever" pulling it down to put pressure on the lower lip. Using this technique inhibits the strengthening of the muscles around the mouth which form the embouchure. I'm not saying that the OP plays the clarinet this way, but it would offer an explanation for the contradiction.

I would advise against going to a softer reed than a Rico Royal 2 1/2 on a Selmer C* which is an excellent "middle of the road" combination. Instead I would recommend playing long tones daily, checking the pitch of the mouthpiece and crook to make sure it is no higher than an E concert, and to do Larry Teal's smile-whistle-smile-whistle 50 times exercise several times a day. In a week or so the problem will take care of itself.
 
Mmm. Maybe as a clarinet player and being used to playing at the top of the mouthpiece pitch , the same principal is being applied to the saxophone. Pushing a tenor reed to the top of it's pitch will be a real work out for the chops. Maybe pushing the mouthpiece on to the cork a little further and using the middle of the range is what's required. I have a bad habit the other way and let the clarinet slide down. It feels great when I'm playing but sounds awful when I listen back.
 
I play a Selmer C** Soloist on my tenor, with Rico Royal #2 reeds and I could play all day. Perhaps your problem is that you are playing the sax with your clarinet embouchure. You need a much more relaxed embouchure on a tenor sax and I prefer the lip out variety. Look in a mirror and suck your thumb to see the one I use. Open up your throat and breath through the sax with a Haw. Just as if you were breathing on a piece of glass prior to a wipe. This is called playing the sax with warm air. Works for me. Enjoy your tenor.

Jim.
 
Thanks for all your suggestions. The exercises and a more relaxed emboucher seem to help, but I've still got a long way to go.
 
It's about the journey not the destination, so it matters not where we start from or where we get to. We are where we are. Don't forget to smell the flowers and enjoy the view.

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smell while you play 🙂

Jx
 
There is a real contradiction in the OP's statement. The clarinet embouchure requires a great deal more exertion and muscle strength than any of the saxophone embouchures because the clarinet plays at the top of its mouthpiece pitch. That would normally translate to a clarinet player being able to play for longer periods on the tenor sax than on the clarinet before embouchure muscle fatigue kicks in.

In my experience, the vibrations from the baritone sax reed can numb my muscles over time, when I have not played bari in a while. I definitely use different muscles on clarinet (I played clarinet for 20 years, and just started again), and they tire in a different way.
 
An interesting development...I picked up an Otto Link New York Metal Mouthpiece (5). Being a bit smaller, it seems to fit better. I seem to play longer with less fatigue. There is a big HOWEVER...it takes a bit more concentration when I play, to maintain a consistent tone. It is very responsive to even the slightest change in tongue/lip/mouth/throat position. Very Cool!
 
It always feels like you're on the edge of losing it with a new mouthpiece. If you're happy with it, stick with it. You will make the mental adjustment and make the transition in a little while and it won't feel so dangerous. Chopping and changing will just confuse your embouchure at this stage.
 
Colin--It's that I don't feel the fatigue with the Otto Link. In fact, it's as comfortable as my clarinet mpc. What I'm saying (if I'm saying anything), is that this mpc is very free blowing and really picks up the nuances of my emboucher. For example, by using more or less lower lip (I'm talking mm. here) I can control the edge of the sound. I can control the focus by changing the shape of my throat and tongue. It's something that I couldn't do with my Selmer Soloist. It's way cool!
 
The link will have a different shape to the lay as well as being a different tip opening. The rico royale is french filed/cut to suit the selmer french lay. The link is american so will probably suit a rico (orange box). Just something else to think about.
 

Similar threads... or are they? Maybe not but they could be worth reading anyway 😀

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