All profit supporting special needs music education and Help Musicians

M/Pieces - Ligs Mouthpiece profile/ Embouchure Issues

Jules

Formerly known as "nachoman"
Messages
4,910
Locality
brighton by the sea
I'm trying to sort out 'the' mouthpiece for my lovely new TJ raw tenor and have hit on something that I've never really experienced before. Now- to date I've been dedicated to Berg Larsens with occasional dalliances with PPTs, Jody Jazz and Runyons. The hands down winner on my new tenor is an Otto Link- tweaked by Morgan Fry (floridated, in his words)- blows a storm, great intonation, good scream potential, full but enough cut to work with some of my shockingly loud bands... basically it ticks all the boxes. However -the profile in my mouth is noticeably different from what i'm used to and I'm finding it gives me embouchure ache after about half an hour. Anyone else familiar with this as an issue? I'm guessing that, if I work through it, my gob will get used to the new piece (?... then will Bergs hurt?)... any comments appreciated....... frustrated of Brighton
 

rhysonsax

Well-Known Member
Café Supporter
Messages
5,160
Locality
Surrey, UK
What is it that makes it uncomfortable ?

When I played Pete's new PPT bari mouthpiece I found the bite uncomfortably small, almost like the jaws were clamped right together. But then comparing that piece with my own PPT, I saw that the difference wasn't much at all. Even so, I don't think I could have got used to it.

And how much the mouth opens affects the sound - it's not just about comfort.

I find my STM (also worked on by Morgan) has a bite that is a bit thin. You can build it up a bit with mouthpiece patches. If you need something more than that, then maybe a mouthpiece tech could build it up with dental epoxy or something.

Rhys
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,326
Locality
London
I'm trying to sort out 'the' mouthpiece for my lovely new TJ raw tenor and have hit on something that I've never really experienced before. Now- to date I've been dedicated to Berg Larsens with occasional dalliances with PPTs, Jody Jazz and Runyons. The hands down winner on my new tenor is an Otto Link- tweaked by Morgan Fry (floridated, in his words)- blows a storm, great intonation, good scream potential, full but enough cut to work with some of my shockingly loud bands... basically it ticks all the boxes. However -the profile in my mouth is noticeably different from what i'm used to and I'm finding it gives me embouchure ache after about half an hour. Anyone else familiar with this as an issue? I'm guessing that, if I work through it, my gob will get used to the new piece (?... then will Bergs hurt?)... any comments appreciated....... frustrated of Brighton

What kind of ache?
I am in a similar situation with a metal florida Link on my JP and HR Pillinger on my six, after many years on a HR Larsen.
 

MartinL

Member
Messages
366
Locality
Bilston, United Kingdom.
I'm trying to sort out 'the' mouthpiece for my lovely new TJ raw tenor and have hit on something that I've never really experienced before. Now- to date I've been dedicated to Berg Larsens with occasional dalliances with PPTs, Jody Jazz and Runyons. The hands down winner on my new tenor is an Otto Link- tweaked by Morgan Fry (floridated, in his words)- blows a storm, great intonation, good scream potential, full but enough cut to work with some of my shockingly loud bands... basically it ticks all the boxes. However -the profile in my mouth is noticeably different from what i'm used to and I'm finding it gives me embouchure ache after about half an hour. Anyone else familiar with this as an issue? I'm guessing that, if I work through it, my gob will get used to the new piece (?... then will Bergs hurt?)... any comments appreciated....... frustrated of Brighton

I would think you will get used to it, a bit like playing a new slightly harder reed. The problem you will have is the day you opt for your old set up and find that you cant play with it any more, or not play with it as well as you did.
 

Saxlicker

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,981
Locality
Breakfast room since '06 UK
Is the floridated link more resistant than the Berg e.t.c. ? If so, the ache is probably more to do with that and the change in profile (extreme though it is) is a secondary issue.
In either case, you will get used to it but if it is mainly resistance, any time you put on the Berg e.t.c. back on you are probably going to doubt the link for a while afterwards when you swap back.

At least thats the kind of thing that happens to me (kicks self up the rear once again for playing around with mouthpieces too often...play one piece only boys and girls)
 

Nick Wyver

noisy
Café Supporter
Messages
6,055
Locality
Minster On Sea
The issue has cropped up recently for me too. The opposite to Rhysonsax. I've just got a PPT baritone which is a much bigger lump than the Jody Jazz DV I'm used to and even more so than the Runyon Quantum I had before that. Makes my jaw ache after a few mins playing. I'll persevere. It'll get better - I just need to put the hours in.
 

Nick Wyver

noisy
Café Supporter
Messages
6,055
Locality
Minster On Sea
Please be careful. Sometimes it could cause stress to the jaw's articulation. Kind of tennis elbow.
Extra care if you suffer from bruxism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruxism

Thanks for your concern but I doubt that it'll be a problem (unlike my elbows). I used to play a Meyer a lot on bari and the PPT is a similar size so I expect I'll get back into it reasonably quickly.
 

Kingsleyhk

Senior Member
Messages
507
Locality
Nr. Bandung, Indonesia
I think bite shape - if that's a reasonable term to use - is a real issue. Broad brush, I find rubber/plastic uncomfortable but metal very playable. So, I find my Links (tenor and soprano) and the Dukoff and Beg Larsen (tenor) very easy, whereas the stock, Bari and Mayer (soprano) Rico (tenor) are hard work. To me, it's a lot about the cross action of the mic at the point where you bite on it. I've come to the conclusion (after considerable investment) that mouthpieces don't actually make that much difference as long as they feel comfortable.

PS: My wife suffers from bruxism but she seems to be able to grind it out every night
 

BigMartin

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,958
Locality
Manchester, UK
Sorry should be mpc and Berg! Spellcheckers - huh!
You can edit your posts to fix stuff like that. I have to do it just about every time. For some reason my spelling and even grammar are much better with handwriting than typing.
 

altissimo

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,349
Locality
leicester
It's not uncommon for some people to find that changing from a narrower beak profile to a wider one causes jaw ache, some folks adjust to it, others don't. If the problem persists, maybe you could get Mr Fry to modify it for you?
 

rhysonsax

Well-Known Member
Café Supporter
Messages
5,160
Locality
Surrey, UK
The issue has cropped up recently for me too. The opposite to Rhysonsax. I've just got a PPT baritone which is a much bigger lump than the Jody Jazz DV I'm used to and even more so than the Runyon Quantum I had before that. Makes my jaw ache after a few mins playing. I'll persevere. It'll get better - I just need to put the hours in.

Looking at the PPT bari pieces when I had Pete's passaround on loan, it looks like there was lots of meat in the beak on mine and it could be reduced to make it more like a "duck-bill". Ed Pillinger could probably reduce the beak on your PPT and make it look lovely, or maybe you could try filing some material away yourself.
 

Attachments

  • PPT Bari old & new.JPG
    PPT Bari old & new.JPG
    35.3 KB · Views: 84

Two Voices

Senior Member
Messages
1,113
Locality
United Kingdom
I know that the custom mouthpiece Morgan Made me based on an Otto has a fair amount of back pressure I believe far more than a Berg. Just a thought.
 

Morgan Fry

Senior Member
Messages
447
Locality
Leeds
Jules, sounds like you need one of my new ones ;). Shorter beak thank the Links. You'll get used to what you get used to, but I think a shorter beak puts your jaw in a more relaxed position from which it's easier to control your sound.
 

rhysonsax

Well-Known Member
Café Supporter
Messages
5,160
Locality
Surrey, UK
Jules, sounds like you need one of my new ones ;). Shorter beak thank the Links. You'll get used to what you get used to, but I think a shorter beak puts your jaw in a more relaxed position from which it's easier to control your sound.

Hi Morgan,

Is that your own new metal piece ? Looks and sounds very interesting.

Can you explain "shorter beak" ? I understand about fatter/thinner or bigger/smaller bite or normal/duck-bill, all of which are about how much far apart your jaws are. Is your "shorter" my "thinner", verging on "duck-bell" ?

Rhys
 

Two Voices

Senior Member
Messages
1,113
Locality
United Kingdom
Hi Morgan,

Is that your own new metal piece ? Looks and sounds very interesting.

Can you explain "shorter beak" ? I understand about fatter/thinner or bigger/smaller bite or normal/duck-bill, all of which are about how much far apart your jaws are. Is your "shorter" my "thinner", verging on "duck-bell" ?

Rhys

Hi Rhys,

Here's some pic's from an old thread of the mouthpiece. You can see the shape quite well. I found I had to drop a half strength on my reeds to play this mouthpiece with ease.

Link to post 10
 

Morgan Fry

Senior Member
Messages
447
Locality
Leeds
Hi Morgan,

Is that your own new metal piece ? Looks and sounds very interesting.

Can you explain "shorter beak" ? I understand about fatter/thinner or bigger/smaller bite or normal/duck-bill, all of which are about how much far apart your jaws are. Is your "shorter" my "thinner", verging on "duck-bell" ?

Rhys

By short I mean the height if the mouthpiece is laying on it's table. So yeah thinner, narrower, smaller bite, jaws closer together than a Link. Hm. Maybe I should reconsider my nomenclature...

Paul's piece he linked to below is an example. The only substantial difference is I'm using a different biteplate (pearlescent white acrylic) now and rhodium plating instead of gold. Taking new product photos this week.
 

Saxby

Member
Messages
86
Locality
Warsaw, Poland.
Yeah Jules, changing mpces with differing profiles can cause some jaw ache until you get used to them...
Especially between a Berg (narrow) and a Link (wide)... although the stm's are narrower than the HR links...
When I first started on a HR Link, it took me a while to grow into the size/shape of the beak, but after time it felt very normal and comfortable..then when i got my fry stm link it felt very narrow by comparison.
 

Popular Discussions

London
Paris
New York
Los Angeles
Sydney
Moscow
New Delhi
Top Bottom