Beginner Mixolydian on F - confused!!

[Shorty]

Having learned the Grade 2 scales I have tried to understand a bit more about their construction and theory. Dorian on A and G I think I get - as well as understanding that mixolydian on D is built on the major scale of G (5th degree and has an F#). But 5th degree of B major gets me to F as the starting note for this scale - and it has a Bb and Eb - and this doesn't fit with any major scales! (Missing 3 other # to be B maj) Help! Is my understanding of building modal scales all wrong? I have been through a number of texts and sites and am not getting any clearer.

 

[saxplorer]

Having learned the Grade 2 scales I have tried to understand a bit more about their construction and theory. Dorian on A and G I think I get - as well as understanding that mixolydian on D is built on the major scale of G (5th degree and has an F#). But 5th degree of B major gets me to F as the starting note for this scale - and it has a Bb and Eb - and this doesn't fit with any major scales! (Missing 3 other # to be B maj) Help! Is my understanding of building modal scales all wrong? I have been through a number of texts and sites and am not getting any clearer.

Others will be know more theory than I do, but I reckon you should be saying "5th degree of B major gets me to F# ".

Starting with F# should get you there.

 

[Shorty]

But it starts on F nat!

 

[Chris]

F Mixolydian, the 5th mode of Bb Maj.

 

[saxplorer]

Ahah, if you start with wanting the Mixo that corresponds to B Maj, you end up with F# Mix
BUT
if you want the Maj scale that corresponds to F Mix, you need to start with Bb Maj ....

Clear as day

 

[Shorty]

Thank you!! I will now go and learn all my b and # major scales!

 

[saxplorer]

The Circle of Fifths can be your friend here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths

To find the Major scale that has the same notes as the Mixo you want, just find the Mixo you're after (eg F in your question) on the circle and then go one step anticlockwise around the circle, which takes you to Bb

so, D Mixo -> G Major
F Mixo -> Bb Maj
F# Mixo -> B Maj

For me as a theory beginner this has been an invaluable mental tool. (All sorts of other key relationships can be visualised and memorised in this way, too).

 

[jbtsax]

It may be helpful in learning scales to start by learning their key signatures. The order of sharps in key signatures can be learned as: Fat Cows Go Down And Eat Buttercups. The order of the flats are the sharps in reverse: B E A D G C F.

A half step above the last sharp gives the name of the major key. The next to last flat gives the name of the major key. If there is one flat, the key is F. If there are no flats or sharps, the key is C.

 

[kernewegor]

The Circle of Fifths can be your friend here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths

To find the Major scale that has the same notes as the Mixo you want, just find the Mixo you're after (eg F in your question) on the circle and then go one step anticlockwise around the circle, which takes you to Bb

so, D Mixo -> G Major
F Mixo -> Bb Maj
F# Mixo -> B Maj

For me as a theory beginner this has been an invaluable mental tool. (All sorts of other key relationships can be visualised and memorised in this way, too).

The visual image of the circle of fourths/fifths (depending which way round you go) is a powerful mental tool indeed, second in importance to the visualisation of the black notes and white notes on a piano keyboard.

I find the keyboard visualisation even helps when thinking of scales involving microtones... at least as a bridge between conscious thought and the deeper, instinctive level of being at one with the scales and playing straight ahead.

 

[ArtyLady]

As well as being the 5th degree (Dominant) I also think of Mixolydian as the major scale with a flattened 7th. I get my students to learn their major scales inside then they can use both the key signature method or the scale spelling method (ie 1,2, 3, 4, 5, 6, b7) hope that helps a bit

(edit; that should say inside out!)

 

[BigMartin]

As well as being the 5th degree (Dominant) I also think of Mixolydian as the major scale with a flattened 7th. I get my students to learn their major scales inside then they can use both the key signature method or the scale spelling method (ie 1,2, 3, 4, 5, 6, b7) hope that helps a bit

Yes, I find this much more useful if you just want to think about F mixo as a scale in it's own right (rather than something to play over the chord 5 of Bb major). Similarly dorian is major with b3 and b7, and so on.

 

[Justin Chune]

To help me a friend gave me this book. "Jazz Theory by Phil Hargreaves. " The book is only 88 pages long and is a guide to the basics of Jazz Theory for the practising musician, including modes, chords, scales and a guide to making practical use of the knowledge.

A WMA publication, 12 St Andrew's Square, London W11 1RH. In case it's not in the shops.

Jim.

 

[aldevis]

It may be helpful in learning scales to start by learning their key signatures. The order of sharps in key signatures can be learned as: Fat Cows Go Down And Eat Buttercups. The order of the flats are the sharps in reverse: B E A D G C F.

A half step above the last sharp gives the name of the major key. The next to last flat gives the name of the major key. If there is one flat, the key is F. If there are no flats or sharps, the key is C.

Barbarians!
SiMiLaReSolDoFa (similar makes money)
FaDoSolReLaMiSi

Thanks for the precious English version, JBT. Fat cows are quite common here: easy to remember.

 

[Ivan]

The visual image of the circle of fourths/fifths .

I'm sorry

Anything that links music with 'circle of' gives me an Elton John related nausea

 

[jbtsax]

Now I can't feel the love.

 

[Jeanette]

Now I can't feel the love.

Well we can't have that today of all days

Jx

 

[kernewegor]

I'm sorry

Anything that links music with 'circle of' gives me an Elton John related nausea

And you think 'cycle' is better?

You wait until your derailleur throws a wobbler and your chain wraps around the rear fork so tight you need a crowbar to undo it and you have to walk home - with chain grease all over your hands.