Mouthpieces metal mouthpiece?

[aldevis]

Today I realized I need a metal mouthpiece.

Since there is scientific evidence that material does not influence the sound, I am basing my decision or artistic grounds: no links to "scientific" studies, please.
The whole thing is about a specific "colour" I cannot get from any of my ebonite/bronzite/onyxite piece.

1- I have a Link refaced to a 7 by Pillinger, my very first mouthpiece, 7 is the maximum opening achievable. Beautiful sound, not enough dynamic for me.
2- I have a Link 11: great piece, very tiring, very valuable (no usa), it would be a pity to reface it.
3- I use 9g (Pillinger) facings on two ebonite pieces that is absolutely great.
4- I don't want to sell anything.
5- I cannot spend more than £200 (stretching my wallet): unfortunately no Morgan Fry (the obvious choice)
6- I prefer to give my money to craftsmen (or craftswomen).

My options are:
a- to look for a cheap link around a 9 facing to have it refaced to a 9g
b- to look for a decent new link, and maybe have it refaced later
c- to find a good affordable link-like piece: Barone? (I heard great things about) Lebayle?

d- suggestions?

 

[rhysonsax]

I guess that we are talking about tenor here ?

What style of music and whose sound would you like to aim for (e.g. Coltrane, Dexter, Jr Walker .......) ?

In terms of Link Super Tone Master type sound but with some more power, you could try SR Tech Titan, Vandoren V16 (metal) or a second hand Link with/without refacing and added-in baffle (e.g. by Morgan Fry).

I had my 1980s Link STM 5 refaced first by Ed Pillinger and then by Morgan Fry. It is very good, but like yours about a 7 as that is the limit of what it could get to.

Obvious advice is to get to a shop where you can compare several mouthpieces and see what you like. If it's beyond your budget, then wait or advertise for a good second hand example.

Or find a friendly person who would lend you one !

Good luck

Rhys

 

[aldevis]

I guess that we are talking about tenor here ?

TEENOR, tenor, yes tenor. An essential aspect of the thread left behind.

What style of music and whose sound would you like to aim for (e.g. Coltrane, Dexter, Jr Walker .......) ?

Kind of myself... Hard to describe ...
I found that I get along well with no high baffle stuff. In the past I went through Guardala, Dukoff, Bari...
A HR Berg Larsen has been the longest serving pice (8 years) followed by V16 T95 (5 years) and Pillinger (last 5 years)

In terms of Link Super Tone Master type sound but with some more power, you could try SR Tech Titan, Vandoren V16 (metal) or a second hand Link with/without refacing and added-in baffle (e.g. by Morgan Fry).

I had my 1980s Link STM 5 refaced first by Ed Pillinger and then by Morgan Fry. It is very good, but like yours about a 7 as that is the limit of what it could get to.

Same here, my first piece was a 5, found recently in a forgotten drawer. Fry is beyond my finances, but that is the direction.

Obvious advice is to get to a shop where you can compare several mouthpieces and see what you like. If it's beyond your budget, then wait or advertise for a good second hand example.

Or find a friendly person who would lend you one !

Good luck

Rhys

Thanks, I am afraid that Howarth and sax.co.uk will enjoy my harmonics shortly...

 

[jonf]

This is mine.



Started life as a 10, looks like a 1980s one to me. The previous owner had the wobbly rails and table fixed, then added a big epoxy baffle. It's also had some of the inner material removed to make it slightly larger. Plays brilliantly (unlike me). I bought it from the modifier for, I think, forty quid. I think this is what should be done to all Links (joke - well, maybe, not much of a fan of standard ones).

You do occasionally still see tatty links on UK eBay for less than fifty quid. If you want one to modifiy or have refaced, just keep your eyes peeled, and something will turn up. Set up a well focussed ebay search, and get notifications emailed to you.

Jon

 

[aldevis]

This is mine.

View attachment 1635

Started life as a 10, looks like a 1980s one to me. The previous owner had the wobbly rails and table fixed, then added a big epoxy baffle. It's also had some of the inner material removed to make it slightly larger. Plays brilliantly (unlike me). I bought it from the modifier for, I think, forty quid. I think this is what should be done to all Links (joke - well, maybe, not much of a fan of standard ones).

You do occasionally still see tatty links on UK eBay for less than fifty quid. If you want one to modifiy or have refaced, just keep your eyes peeled, and something will turn up. Set up a well focussed ebay search, and get notifications emailed to you.

Jon

Great piece! On ebay I mostly find ultra expensive vintage pieces... The point about refacing is that reducing a 10* can usually be done,but opening a 6 (a common find on ebay) is not that easy.

I see the direction you are both advising me to.... any thought about new links? are they worth trying or they are so inconsistent to result in a waste of time?

 

[oldpuffer]

Great piece! On ebay I mostly find ultra expensive vintage pieces... The point about refacing is that reducing a 10* can usually be done,but opening a 6 (a common find on ebay) is not that easy.

I see the direction you are both advising me to.... any thought about new links? are they worth trying or they are so inconsistent to result in a waste of time?

How about a Lawton? J.Packer are selling them for only a little over your budget tho there is a wait time.

 

[aldevis]

How about a Lawton? J.Packer are selling them for only a little over your budget tho there is a wait time.

Good suggestion. I am not familiar with them. Does anyone roughly know what metal are they made of?

 

[aldevis]

And by the way, any experience with Lebayle jazz? It is endorsed by musicians from the link side of the spectrum.

 

[oldpuffer]

Good suggestion. I am not familiar with them. Does anyone roughly know what metal are they made of?

Bronze not brass, and very well finished and consistent apparently.

 

[baritonesax]

Aldevis, I like Lebayle Jazz on Bari, never tried tenor ones. I owned an LR2 a few years ago - I liked it for a while, then went off it. Strangely tubby sound. I tried a high baffle Lebayle tenor piece - squeaky and shrieky.

 

[rhysonsax]

Good suggestion. I am not familiar with them. Does anyone roughly know what metal are they made of?

I'm a very big fan of Lawton pieces and have more than 20 of them. The metal ones come in stainless steel, nickel silver (not brass) or bronze (for pieces marked 'Special' and the ICON model). I like the plain and B models more than the BB and the ICON pieces are superb but rare.

Rhys

 

[jonf]

I've also played Lawtons for 30 years, and I think they're great. Like Rhys I prefer the plain and B models.

Re the modern Links, they're a bit variable in my experience, but not as bad as some make out. My main gripe with them is the basic design tends towards the dull and stuffy sort of sound. I find the wider ones work better, as if pushing more air through them benefits the sound. I had an STM NY 9* a while ago, and it was actually pretty good. Would have been better with a big wedge baffle, though.......

 

[tzadik]

I'm pretty sure you need a piece like this: http://fotoalbum.virgilio.it/tzadik/warburton_la_8star/

(or one like this: http://fotoalbum.virgilio.it/tzadik/drake_jazz/ )

 

[dooce]

You might want to try a Brancher - no idea what the metal is but they are gold-plated, very aesthetically pleasing to look at, and I've played a J29 (9-ish Link equivalent) for the last year, having also moved on from an HR Berg. I think Howarths do them and they are around the £200 mark.

 

[tzadik]

And by the way, any experience with Lebayle jazz? It is endorsed by musicians from the link side of the spectrum.

The Lebayle "Metal Jazz" is probably the best sound metal Lebayle for jazzy tones.
The (Metal) LR-I is a bit brigher.
The (Metal) LR-II is a very dark mouthpiece.

The Jazz has a medium-to-dark but focused sound: no baffle and a little restriction on the chamber.
http://fotoalbum.virgilio.it/tzadik/lebayle_metal_jazz/

It sounds very "contemporary" it doesn't have the traditional Link vibe, but it's quite dark and even through the register... forget the mid-low frequencies punch.
Few artists (advertised on the site) still play with the "Jazz"... many moved back to old Links (or something similar), some others moved to other Lebayle models.

I've personally never appreciated the ligature which come with Lebayles (especially the "ring"): they all kill a little bit the response.

 

[aldevis]

Thanks Tzadik. I kind of agree with your observation about Lebayles: i could only try a 7 jazz and a 8* LR: hard to do a comparison, considering the different facings. The 8* sounded very "contemporary" indeed, whatever it means. I tried them both on my MkVI. Ligatures are bad. Shame they didn't have any 9 in the shop.

I question metals only because refacing brass is generally easier than stainless steel. I will give brancher a try, if the have a suitable facing.

My search goes on....

 

[tzadik]

For what I can feel... Lebayle facings are medium-to-short and very round (not elliptical nor parabolic). I've always preferred longer facing... but I like Lebayle facing (on Lebayle mouthpieces). I think the "Metal Jazz" is the most balanced Lebayle for jazzy sound/playing.


To me... it's better you define what you are looking for in the mouthpiece: edge, fatness/deepness, warmth, good attack/soft attack, focus, darkness, Link-like vibe, volume, resistance?

Clearer are your ideas, easier will be identify the mouthpiece to try/buy.

 

[aldevis]

To me... it's better you define what you are looking for in the mouthpiece: edge, fatness/deepness, warmth, good attack/soft attack, focus, darkness, Link-like vibe, volume, resistance?

Exactly that: edge, fatness/deepness, warmth, good attack/soft attack, focus, darkness, Link-like vibe, volume, resistance.

Plus brightness, free blowing, spread...

If I could describe it with words I wouldn't waste my time playing saxophone....


But I am having good inputs here.

 

[Fraser Jarvis]

Why not take a look at what Sakshama can do for you, he can copy original pieces or make you a one off, he did me a Guardala MB11 with rails cut into it so i can use my Lawton ligature.....many people say his Guardala's are the best available, even more so than the original pieces made by Dave himself!

A word of caution regarding Lawtons, and i say this as something James Carter said, watch the modern ones made by his son as in his opinion they just are not as good.
http://sakshamamouthpieces.com/

 

[tzadik]

I tried many mouthpieces that "expand" the "traditional" (metal) Link sound into different directions.
If you find the "the directions" is pretty easy...

Example:
I've always liked the Florida vibe... but I want more depth/punch... and less nasality in the sound, I also wanted a confortable mouthpiece (I prefer lower beak profile), I wanted no "thinning out" on the high register (...) and some good "compression". So I spent few hours looking for info/reviews/sample... and I've ended up with a Drake "Jazz" 8*... and it's like having 5 Otto Links into one mouthpiece.