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Lyon and Healey Clown face

gladsaxisme

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I have a Lyon and Healey Clown face alto that I I am trying to overhaul and was wondering if anyone has any information on these saxes.When you look at it you think it must be a Martin stencil because of the large soldered on tone holes but when you go onto SOTW they tend to say this is in fact not the case but that they are actually made by a French company called Coutuore in La Plage then they talk about the factory being bought by Lyon and Healey who were and apparently still are harp manufacturers in Chicago.
My sax is either silver or nickel plated (well worn) not sure which, but it is a sand blasted finish on the body except for the polished clown face on the bell and polished keys and mechanics like I have said it seems to have Martin tone holes but there are differences,the bell brace has a round connector to bell rather than the diamond shape on the Martin, the Palm keys are interlinked and the neck octave mechanism is a double hinged two part affair where the hoop and bar connect to a little independently hinged octave key by a pin in the end of it, there may be other differences that I don't know about
Does anyone know anything definitive about these horns
 

thomsax

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I'm not so familiar with Lyon & Healy saxes. I know that they had saxes mady by Conn (Elkhart,IN), Beuscher (Elkhart,IN), Holton (Elkhorn, WI), H.N. White (Cleveland,OH) Martin (Elkhart IN), York (Grand Rapid, MI), Couturier (LaPorte, IN) and Couesnon (France). Couturier was a small manufactor that made saxes with soft soldered toneholes like Martin. Courturier was bought up by Lyon & Healy in the 20's. But also Couesnon made saxes with softsoldered toneholes. And so did also Kohlert, Hohner and Keilwerth in the late 40's/early 50's. A Martin is not always a Martin!
 

gladsaxisme

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I'm not so familiar with Lyon & Healy saxes. I know that they had saxes mady by Conn (Elkhart,IN), Beuscher (Elkhart,IN), Holton (Elkhorn, WI), H.N. White (Cleveland,OH) Martin (Elkhart IN), York (Grand Rapid, MI), Couturier (LaPorte, IN) and Couesnon (France). Couturier was a small manufactor that made saxes with soft soldered toneholes like Martin. Courturier was bought up by Lyon & Healy in the 20's. But also Couesnon made saxes with softsoldered toneholes. And so did also Kohlert, Hohner and Keilwerth in the late 40's/early 50's. A Martin is not always a Martin!

Thanks @thomsax i had no idea there were so many manufacturers that used the Martin style of tone holes so it looks like it will be Couturier
 

saxyjt

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Coutuore in La Plage

Sounds like a mixed of Italian, English and French... But based on @thomsax 's post, I would bet there is a relationship with "Couturier (LaPorte, IN)". Just a kind of puzzle with typos and interesting words permutations (La Plage vs La Porte). :confused:

Would you have any pictures of that intriguing beast?
 

gladsaxisme

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Sounds like a mixed of Italian, English and French... But based on @thomsax 's post, I would bet there is a relationship with "Couturier (LaPorte, IN)". Just a kind of puzzle with typos and interesting words permutations (La Plage vs La Porte). :confused:

Would you have any pictures of that intriguing beast?

Yep got the LaPorte LaPlage bit wrong I was trying to do it from memory when I googled it and was lead to a thread onSOTW which I found a bit confusing, they seemed to be talking about all sorts of different things.
I don't think I have any pics, if I did take some they would have been on my old PC that went into meltdown with a virus and I lost pretty much everything I had on it.
I could try taking a few more now but it's all in bits at the moment and I'm hopeless at the posting pics thing,I'll give it a try
 

kevgermany

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Gladsaxisme showed me this sax when I was over a week or two ago.

NB, the toneholes on this sax are not 'bevelled' like Martins and the post war Kohlerts / Keilwerths but have thinner chimney material with tops like a normal drawn tonehole. But in case anyone's wondering, the solder can be seen, and you can feel the sharp edges where the tonehole chimney was cut, inside the sax.
 

saxyjt

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my old PC that went into meltdown with a virus and I lost pretty much everything I had on it.

Do you still have your old PC? I used to recover files from hard drives as a hobby before I discovered that having sax was more fun! :cool:
 

gladsaxisme

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Do you still have your old PC? I used to recover files from hard drives as a hobby before I discovered that having sax was more fun! :cool:

No I don't have the PC now if Google Lyon and Healy clown face you get a lot of pics at the top of the page
 

thomsax

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Gladsaxisme showed me this sax when I was over a week or two ago.

NB, the toneholes on this sax are not 'bevelled' like Martins and the post war Kohlerts / Keilwerths but have thinner chimney material with tops like a normal drawn tonehole. But in case anyone's wondering, the solder can be seen, and you can feel the sharp edges where the tonehole chimney was cut, inside the sax.

I have never seen a Couturier made sax. Are the toneholes soft soldered? A thinner design allow the sax to have silversoldered toneholes. And yes the toneholes rims are differnt on Couturier. This manufactor is interesting. Stencil maker but they also sold horns under thier own name. I have heard of another brand, Imperial, that made saxes in Pennsylvania. Also with softsoldered toneholes à la Martin. According to the rumour says the were bought up by Martin in the early 30's.
 

gladsaxisme

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I have never seen a Couturier made sax. Are the toneholes soft soldered? A thinner design allow the sax to have silversoldered toneholes. And yes the toneholes rims are differnt on Couturier. This manufactor is interesting. Stencil maker but they also sold horns under thier own name. I have heard of another brand, Imperial, that made saxes in Pennsylvania. Also with softsoldered toneholes à la Martin. According to the rumour says the were bought up by Martin in the early 30's.

I'm afraid that Kev has got mixed up with an old King alto I have with thin brass tone holes that look like they are drawn out but actually have been silver soldered on,a very strong joint it is too as one had been very badly knocked in by the bell brace and it seems to have come back out without splitting the joint or at least I hope it has,won't know until I finish it and try to play it
 

jbtsax

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Why is it called a "clown face"? Can you supply a picture?
 

gladsaxisme

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image.jpeg image.jpeg
Here are two pics of the beast
 

gladsaxisme

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Just been trial fitting the pads, these are pisoni pro's and they don't seem too bad as far as aligning level with the tone hole which I have already levelled they weren't too far out in general
 

kevgermany

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I'm afraid that Kev has got mixed up with an old King alto I have with thin brass tone holes that look like they are drawn out but actually have been silver soldered on,a very strong joint it is too as one had been very badly knocked in by the bell brace and it seems to have come back out without splitting the joint or at least I hope it has,won't know until I finish it and try to play it
:oops:
 

gladsaxisme

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Like I said before if you google l@h clown face some pictures come up at the top of the page if you go along them you will come to a very grungy one lying on a chair that looks awfull well mine was at least twice as bad when I bought it, in fact there are a few in that condition as if these poor saxes really get abused
 
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