Beginner Lower than a Bb?

[Halfers]

A question that popped into my mind while noodling over a song yesterday. There is one part of the song where the vocal melody naturally falls down at the end of a phrase to what would be a low A on the Tenor.

The question is, can an accomplished player lip down a low Bb half a step, or perhaps lower??

 

[Veggie Dave]

Put your knee/foot into/over the bell while playing Bb and voila, you have a low A.

I've never worked out how to do it in a live situation, though.

 

[rhysonsax]

Put your knee/foot into/over the bell while playing Bb and voila, you have a low A.

I've never worked out how to do it in a live situation, though.

The knee / foot / other body part doesn't have to belong to the player themselves.

Nuff said.

Rhys

 

[Colin the Bear]

The short answer is no, you can't lip down a Bb to A. However you can play it an octave up or ...I seem to remember seeing a player using a traffic cone in the bell to extend the length of the pipe. Or... get a Baritone, or a Bb bass or an Eb contra bass...

 

[brianr]

A question that popped into my mind while noodling over a song yesterday. There is one part of the song where the vocal melody naturally falls down at the end of a phrase to what would be a low A on the Tenor.

The question is, can an accomplished player lip down a low Bb half a step, or perhaps lower??

Possibly, but in my view it is a waste of time and effort.

the note is not going to sound great, probably not good tuning wise, and will just not happen in a run of notes.

Forget about it, and just play the melody up an octave.

Or, you could buy a baritone, but of course, as we all know , that is a step backwards musically, from the tenor .

Edit. Colin....snap (ish)

 

[Colin the Bear]

Gerry might disagree, Mulligan that is and probably Harry Carney, if they weren't dead, perhaps next Halloween

 

[Halfers]

He he. Thanks guys. Just one of those 'I wonder if' moments. If I used a knee and a traffic cone, I wonder if that might work twice as well!

 

[brianr]

Here you go..

I love these guys. Great energy and groove. And they can all really play.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wwBhxBBa7tE

 

[Veggie Dave]

Gerry might disagree, Mulligan that is and probably Harry Carney, if they weren't dead, perhaps next Halloween

Dexter Gordon also played low A a lot, which is how I found that it was possible. When I play it during practice it sounds solid with excellent intonation. One day I'll be able to throw into a live jam ... just need to perfect my Kama Sutra poses first.

 

[thomsax]

A low A extention is working on a baritone to Bb. You loose the low B ! So maybe an extension is working on a Bb tenor as well. No big money to try.

Low Bb bari w extension

View: https://youtu.be/s2w98oeNd1s


A Bb bass sax that with extension. This guy knows what is doing. He bought a Bb bass that he didn't like and after a new neck and estension it became more a A bass sax. The story about his work is after the song.

View: https://youtu.be/_R43kY-VkEk

 

[Targa]

Why not 'gloss over it' with two or three notes from the chord.

 

[Pete Thomas]

The main problem I can see is that those lowest couple of notes tend to sound a bit unpleasant and honking, unless in a context where that is appropriate.

In fact I was taught the when arranging for saxophones in a section to avoid this notes on tenor if possible (fine on baritone though its role underpinning the section in a big band or doubling bass trombone.

 

[nigeld]

You could make a bell extension tube to get a bottom A on a saxophone, but you should make it out of robust material if you do.

There is a bassoon piece (Nielsen Wind Quintet) where the bassoon player has to end on a low A, and the player is supposed to roll up a piece of A4 paper and stick it into the bell of the bassoon. The bassoon part even comes with a suitable piece of paper with a line printed on it showing how far in it should go. The only time I have tried this, the piece of paper fell out just before the last note.

 

[Halfers]

Thanks for the responses guys. I've attached a link to the song I was playing. All just for fun, I'm not performing this, but it's just the first time I've come across a natural limit to the horn on a melody line. You'll see that as it's a downbeat, blue feeling number, the resolution to the lowest note 'fits in' with the feel of the song and going up sort of kills the 'down at heal' nature of the song. You'll hear where it is. Nick Lowe is one of those artists that I've known of, but never really delved into, until relatively recently. This album is a real grower and has been on rotation for a while!

 

[Pete Thomas]

Why not just play the melody in a higher key?

 

[Halfers]

Why not just play the melody in a higher key?

Yes, could do, and that would be a good test of transposition skills. It's a nice test of my ear to play along with the recording also.

 

[rhysonsax]

Dexter Gordon also played low A a lot, which is how I found that it was possible.

Did he ? Any examples you can point to ?

Rhys

 

[Veggie Dave]

Did he ? Any examples you can point to ?

I'll try and find the interview with him where he talks about it.

<edit>I don't think this is the one I'm thinking of, but he talks about it in this interview, too:
Jazz Profiles: Dexter Gordon: The Chuck Berg Interview

 

[trimmy]

Joshua Redman done it on a tune 4/5 times, i didn't know what he was doing and why, but now i know @Royston @chadders @nickh now we know why !
He used his left knee over the bell to create the note

 

[brianr]

I think some folks are being a little modest here, and a bit slow to come forward

I happen to know that the Cafe Septet have found their own individual way to play a low A on tenor.

check out this clip from their last get together in Cheadle.

The young lady will remain nameless, but I understand she is from Yorkshire, which explains a lot.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wHqUhzZXLWE