Low C "hanging by a thread" vintage Conn- Help!?

DavidUK · Dec 15, 2013

😱

Well, it'll last a little while longer, but what is the solution for this worn key on my "new" Pan Am alto?
Is it a replacement key, or can the brass somehow be built up on the existing one?

Looks like the key is soldered to its rod....

....so I guess the key could be removed and a replacement fitted. I'm thinking Connolly-MIR are more likely to have one knocking about than Paul Carrington. Needs a few dents removed too, not least this one....

...and Matt at Connolly is my favourite dent man. Pads are new-ish (2 years old by Lucy Anette in Devon) so just a little tidying up to do, then she'll be a thing of beauty....

kevgermany · Dec 15, 2013

Can be built up. Don't sweat. Get them to do it while the dents are being knocked out.

DavidUK · Dec 15, 2013

kevgermany said:
Can be built up. Don't sweat. Get them to do it while the dents are being knocked out.

Thanks Kev. Phew!

I was surprised to see it has the little locking grub screws (a couple missing) of the 6M too. Bit of play in a couple of rods, but it still plays perfectly.

jbtsax · Dec 15, 2013

It may be easier to fabricate that "ear" for the key out of brass stock, cut off the old one and silver solder the new one into place. I have seen these wear thin before, but never as much as this one. What is notable is that must be a new neckstrap ring since the original on a sax with this much use would show wear on the upper side. On older saxes, I just unsolder them and turn them upside down to wear in a different spot.

DavidUK · Dec 15, 2013

It had an overhaul two years ago, here: http://www.lamusic.co.uk/. I spoke to Lucy Friday, but not in any great detail. Seems strange to leave the low C if the strap ring was changed. The old ring must have been really bad, or maybe it had reached the point the C key is now?

Colin the Bear · Dec 15, 2013

You can still play without the roller but would struggle without a ring.

altissimo · Dec 15, 2013

looks great, I can practically taste the old brass from here... it must be a good horn if it's been played so much..
I'm surprised that there's set screws on a 50's Pan Am, hope they're not rusted in

Matt Stohrer has a good video on Conn set screws here - http://youtu.be/mXHnGEumywI

griff136 · Dec 16, 2013

I would cut off the old "ear" on the C key and silver solder an new piece of brass on, file to shape and then drill the hole for a new rod screw(axle).

Yes the key is soldered to its rod - thats how they make them.

DavidUK · Dec 16, 2013

griff136 said:
I would cut off the old "ear" on the C key and silver solder an new piece of brass on, file to shape and then drill the hole for a new rod screw(axle).

Yes the key is soldered to its rod - thats how they make them.

Spoke to Matt at Connolly-MIR just, after emailing the pics, and that's what he said too. Dent is no problem. He'll sort it in the new year, plus any other bits that need doing. 🙂

DavidUK · Jan 16, 2014

Just picked the Pan Am up from Paul Carrington (more connvenient than Connnolllys). He made a new key....

Here it is before, again....

He also:

Many thanks to Fraser once again for recommending him.

ProfJames · Jan 16, 2014

Excellent techie information!

DavidUK · Jan 16, 2014

Loving the SDA now I've put the Runyon 22 MP on with RJS 2S reed.
Can't wait to try the Pan Am, but out working late tonight, then golf tomorrow.....
🙁

jbtsax · Jan 16, 2014

Connvenient? 🙂

Nice work. I wonder why he didn't do the extra step of swedging to close the gap between the low C and Eb keys at the time. It would have been easy to do so while reforming the key.

DavidUK · Jan 16, 2014

jbtsax said:
Connvenient? 🙂

Nice work. I wonder why he didn't do the extra step of swedging to close the gap between the low C and Eb keys at the time. It would have been easy to do so while reforming the key.

How do you swedge when there's a rod rather than pivot screws? Just curious. The only way I can think of to close any key gaps is to lengthen the key tubes or move the posts closer together?

jbtsax · Jan 16, 2014

DavidUK said:
How do you swedge when there's a rod rather than pivot screws? Just curious. The only way I can think of to close any key gaps is to lengthen the key tubes or move the posts closer together?

A pair of swedging pliers or a collet tool is used to "squeeze" the brass hinge tube with the steel rod inside. This actually thins the walls of the brass tube in that area causing the tube to increase in length. Moving posts closer together requires resoldering and would not work in this instance because the hinge tube of the C key is "sandwiched" between those of the Eb key.

Fraser Jarvis · Jan 16, 2014

Guess Paul knows what he's doing JBT as he's been in the game many years, glad it went well for you David...

DavidUK · Jan 16, 2014

jbtsax said:
A pair of swedging pliers or a collet tool is used to "squeeze" the brass hinge tube with the steel rod inside. This actually thins the walls of the brass tube in that area causing the tube to increase in length. Moving posts closer together requires resoldering and would not work in this instance because the hinge tube of the C key is "sandwiched" between those of the Eb key.

Gotcha. So my thought about lengthening was correct, just didn't know how!
You have a good eye, just checked and there is maybe 0.2mm play in the key. Strange as the 1mm upper stack play has been taken up completely and all other rods are perfect. I'll mention it to Paul. He'll sort with no bother I know.