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Saxophones looks like corrosion/verdigris on my Mauriat 66UL

DexterG

Member
Messages
33
hi all....im attaching a couple of pics of my new P.Mauriat 66RXUL..it looks like it has bits of corrosion/verdigris on the body (about 7 in all) and the bell (3)..is this normal for an UL horn?
 

Attachments

jonf

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,680
Yes. Also normal for a lacquered horn on which the lacquer has become damaged.

Manufacturers put lacquer on because bare brass corrodes. If you buy an unlacquered horn, you just have to accept that you've bought a horn which will corrode. You can minimise it by wiping it bone dry inside and out after each playing.

I've never been able to understand the attraction of unlacquered horns - the lack of lacquer doesn't make any difference to the sound and they just look tatty far quicker.

Jon
 

DexterG

Member
Messages
33
Yes. Also normal for a lacquered horn on which the lacquer has become damaged.

Manufacturers put lacquer on because bare brass corrodes. If you buy an unlacquered horn, you just have to accept that you've bought a horn which will corrode. You can minimise it by wiping it bone dry inside and out after each playing.

I've never been able to understand the attraction of unlacquered horns - the lack of lacquer doesn't make any difference to the sound and they just look tatty far quicker.

Jon
ive only had it 4 days..is that a reasonable amount of time for the corrosion to start showing?
 

jonf

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,680
I had no idea you'd had it so little time - four days is pretty quick for verdigris to set in. Some things do tend to accelerate it - spills of saliva are one, particularly if you've consumed something acidic such as booze before playing. That's why I suggested making sure it is very dry after playing.

It will come off, though, as long as you're careful. If you get hold of the finest grade of wire wool, and very gently rub, it will come off without leaving much of a mark. Do this at your own risk, though, and go really easy or you might end up scuffing the metal. The very finest grade wire wool is pretty gentle stuff though, so you should be OK. Just make sure it is the very finest grade.

I think the problem with this situation is that it tends to encourage one of two polar opposite behavious - either say, 'hang it' and leave the horn to mature into a dull green old thing, or becom obsessive about cleaning it. That's why I prefer lacquered, I can just adopt a middle ground of giving it a quick wipe through after each playing.

Jon
 

DexterG

Member
Messages
33
thanks for your contribution jonf

any 66UL guys in here notice the same thing after a very short period of time?
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
Looks like something corrosive has been spilled on it. Whatever you do, it'll leave a mark on the horn. If it was me I'd take it back. But sooner or later there'll be more.
 

Young Col

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,419
There is actually a thread in this section started by Ian Half Diminished about the look of 66ULs. I thought they came waxed now. Anyway HDs was looking nice in April when I saw it at his teacher's jazz workshop.

Here's a thought. If you let the corrosion go right through, can you use the resulting holes as toneholes to get random microtonal pitches?

BTW, my vintage laquered Mauriat alto looks -and sounds - great after 20 months!
YC
 

Sunray

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,708
Yep ...

That's what I would have done too ...

Good job mate ... :welldone
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
Good move. According to Mr. Howard, vinegar on a paper tissue will get it off, but try gentle rubbing with lighter fluid first. I'd have more faith in the vinegar. He also suggests grade 0000 wire wool. I wouldn't do that to a new sax.
 

milandro

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,483
mechanical action alone will probably remove corrosion (lighter fluid won't do much if not proving a liquid to smoother the rubbing action, this is not grease that you are removing) and vinegar would dissolve the verdigris while the steel wool will very gently remove it, cleaning the spots where that was. Of course you need protecting your horn (what did you think was going to happen to a unlacquered horn? ) and if the horn has no lacquer to do that than you need to rub some good wax either on natural or synthetic base.
You can either do this on a regular basis or accept that your horn will turn .........green
 

Pete C

Member
Messages
344
Yes green is the way to go, you can't fight it, mine is mostly green now though interestingly I have taught someone with a 66RUL a couple of years old which is more or less pristine despite her playing every day, so I think my high red wine and garlic diet may be a factor!! I was the proud owner of both 66R and a 66RUL tenors for a while and while both have good sounds they are distinctly different sounds. The lacquered horn does look better but IMHO the unlacquered version sounds better, so I am willing to live with the green. Pete
 

Rich

New Member
Messages
9
Hi Folks,

I'm an engineer who works on radar equipment. these items are either made from Aluminium, copper or brass. When the copper and brass items are soldered together various types of flux are used and by their nature are corrosive to give a clean surface for the solder. Once the soldering is complete the items are cleaned in a hot water detergent type liquid. Now what does happen from time to time a small amount of trapped flux will leach out of the joint and cause corrosion.

My tenor sax has a laquered finish but there are signs of some corrosion next to a couple of joints which I suspect are due to flux leaching, not very easy to clean of under the laquer.

Rich
 

milandro

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,483
it is actually impossible to clean and I am afraid that you would have to accept the acid bleeds, unless you remove all lacquer and clean the horn and then be left with the dilemma of what to do with an unlacquered horn. It is also not a sign of bad quality because it has been affecting historically, all brands, especially in modern times.
 

daveysaxboy

Big ruff Geordie bendy metal blower
Messages
3,312
Your 66rul will out live us all by a long time,thats what happens to ul horns so accept it.Mine is far,far worse ,my last 66rul was a green monster but thats the way i like them.I could not be arsed to sit cleaning mine,the whole point of a ul horn to me is the scruffy look and my horn will still be playing great when i am pushing up daisys.
 

jonf

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,680
I know how you feel Davey, I've never really cleaned saxes. Same with bikes. Been riding for thirty years, in all that time I've only ever washed one once. Prefer to just use the things, keep them in good mechanical order but not fret about the appearance. Just like the sax.

BTW, Davey, I've now got your old BW unlaquered alto. Has an aged look to it, plays great. Really great. You'll be disappointed to hear that I've removed the black buttons and put pearls in, though.

Jon
 

daveysaxboy

Big ruff Geordie bendy metal blower
Messages
3,312
I know how you feel Davey, I've never really cleaned saxes. Same with bikes. Been riding for thirty years, in all that time I've only ever washed one once. Prefer to just use the things, keep them in good mechanical order but not fret about the appearance. Just like the sax.

BTW, Davey, I've now got your old BW unlaquered alto. Has an aged look to it, plays great. Really great. You'll be disappointed to hear that I've removed the black buttons and put pearls in, though.

Jon
Yes i just used the buttons as a quick fix job.I found a guy on ebay since then who sells lots of real pearls.I got some pink abolone pearls for my mauriat 64 soprano,looks and feels great.He sells,blue,red,green,pink abolones.Glad the BW is still going strong,i was pleased how the stripping job went on it,the bronze ul looks very nice.Keep blowing her and enjoy.
 

BUMNOTE

Senior Member
Messages
572
My trevor james raw tenor has green verdigris spots after a year,do I accept that's the way it goes,or do any of the cleaning suggestions work.Thanks Bumnote.
 

Keep Blowing

Senior Member
Messages
1,696
hi all....im attaching a couple of pics of my new P.Mauriat 66RXUL..it looks like it has bits of corrosion/verdigris on the body (about 7 in all) and the bell (3)..is this normal for an UL horn?
Is that a new horn of just new to you,. I wouldn't call it corrosion, it's patination in my view, It will take centuries to make any great impression on the integrity of the brass. If you don't like it clean it off and get some renaissance wax to slow down the patination
 

Merryfisher

Member
Messages
265
you just got to accept it. i had 86ul a few years back - it started turning green and spotty from the moment i touched it. I did'nt keep it long and traded it for a TJ RAW about coming up 4 years ago now. Exactly the same thing happened to that, but it never affected the way it has played over the years - it has'nt seen a tech yet, because it has not yet given me a reason to see one
 
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