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Long notes, tone & sound exercises, and warmups

thomsax

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[ADMIN EDIT: these posts have been moved here to a new thread]

I started to along blues recordings by just playing long tones. A slow 12 bar blues in I - IV - V chord progressions and just play the root tone of the chord. I didn't knew what the root tone was when back in late 60's so I just a played tone that I thought was fine. Beside long tones you also get a feeling for chord changes and the music style.
 
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Just playing notes for as long as I can going up and down the sax

So if you’re a bit more scientific about it - playing the same note in the same way on the 4C compared to the Beechler: are we talking a note length of 20s plus vs less than 10? Or more or less parity?
That would be one thing. Other than that it will be whether you can hold the note straight without wavering.
Then whether you can play all notes just as easily - Pete’s soft low Bb challenge.
Then fatigue: after 5 mins of long notes can you play anything else?

@jools28 An important part of long tones is to vary the dynamic intensity of each note. Start at pp, increase volume to F (don’t go louder than you can maintain control of pitch and tone), decrease volume back down to pp. This is on each pitch on one breath.
 
Or start on f(orte or ff(oretimissimo) - p(iano or pp(ianissimo) and back to f or ff. Long tones are good. I used to write down tone exercises when I talked embouchure with players. Here is a sample with long tones with a notbending. Maybe cut off on beat three or "three å" so I could zip some air. Instead of note bending you can also press up.

notebending (2).JPG
 
What does your unusual slur mark mean, the straight line vs the curve? And why only 7 beats with no rest to complete the measure?
 
It's just a long bend down and back up. Not meant to be done in any kind of strict time. I've seen this exercise used to gain flexibility in voicing (since you can only bend so far by loosening the embouchure, until the air just leaks out).
 
@jools28 An important part of long tones is to vary the dynamic intensity of each note. Start at pp, increase volume to F (don’t go louder than you can maintain control of pitch and tone), decrease volume back down to pp. This is on each pitch on one breath.
@Dr G and @thomsax Great thank you this really helps as I didn't exactly know what I was supposed to be doing before with long tones other than just playing a note as long as I could.
 
Play with it. Shape it, bend it, growl it, vibrato it, make it cry, make it happy, pull it, push it. A whole solo on one note. Be musical.
 
@jools28 An important part of long tones is to vary the dynamic intensity of each note. Start at pp, increase volume to F (don’t go louder than you can maintain control of pitch and tone), decrease volume back down to pp. This is on each pitch on one breath.
Actually, I recommend something a bit different: I recommend you start at pppp, so soft you can hardly even start the note, build up to ffff, so loud it wants to break up, then back down to pppp, so soft it starts trying to drop out. Part of the purpose of long tones is to increase your dynamic range while maintaining a good tone and pitch. So if you go from mp to mf, never exceeding the range where you can keep everything nicely under control, you're not extending your capability. If you work at fff, and it wants to break up, and you keep practicing, after a while you'll be able to keep control at fff, and it won't start breaking up till ffff. And you keep at it, and you'll be fine at ffff, and it won't be till fffff that it starts getting wild. And the same thing down at the soft end of things.

You might poop out and have to do, especially on low notes, just the pppp to ffff part before you run out of air. Then take a breath and go ffff to pppp. That's fine. You might have the thing split and blow apart, and have to back up and get another run at it. That's fine, too. On the soft end, it'll drop out on you. Might have to step back, start back at p, and diminish again. Might do this three or four times. Keep at it.

Then, of course, my other constant advice, is to whenever possible do this OUTDOORS, away from reflective surfaces. YOu may think you're blowing the doors off that small reflective practice room, but get out there in the great outdoors and listen to your sound evaporate. That's what the old guys used to do. You know, no-counts like Sonny Rollins. You want a rich, husky, compelling sound that evokes the wind on the prairies, the thunder on the plains, the crashing of surf on the craggy shores. Don't be satisfied with a practice-room sound!
 
Actually, I recommend something a bit different: I recommend you start at pppp, so soft you can hardly even start the note, build up to ffff, so loud it wants to break up, then back down to pppp, so soft it starts trying to drop out. Part of the purpose of long tones is to increase your dynamic range while maintaining a good tone and pitch. So if you go from mp to mf, never exceeding the range where you can keep everything nicely under control, you're not extending your capability. If you work at fff, and it wants to break up, and you keep practicing, after a while you'll be able to keep control at fff, and it won't start breaking up till ffff. And you keep at it, and you'll be fine at ffff, and it won't be till fffff that it starts getting wild. And the same thing down at the soft end of things.

You might poop out and have to do, especially on low notes, just the pppp to ffff part before you run out of air. Then take a breath and go ffff to pppp. That's fine. You might have the thing split and blow apart, and have to back up and get another run at it. That's fine, too. On the soft end, it'll drop out on you. Might have to step back, start back at p, and diminish again. Might do this three or four times. Keep at it.

Then, of course, my other constant advice, is to whenever possible do this OUTDOORS, away from reflective surfaces. YOu may think you're blowing the doors off that small reflective practice room, but get out there in the great outdoors and listen to your sound evaporate. That's what the old guys used to do. You know, no-counts like Sonny Rollins. You want a rich, husky, compelling sound that evokes the wind on the prairies, the thunder on the plains, the crashing of surf on the craggy shores. Don't be satisfied with a practice-room sound!
These are great “bolt on’s”, but you have to start with making a relatively decent note that doesn’t move all over the place pitch-wise. A healthy mf will be a good basis for getting some control and consistency.
 
What does your unusual slur mark mean, the straight line vs the curve? And why only 7 beats with no rest to complete the measure?
This exercises are very much ad lib. I just wrote down what they explained to me. I start straight and then bend down (drop your jaw) and then I take it back again. When I started to do this exercise I just bent down a little bit ( less than a quarter step) and for a short time as well. On beat four in second measure I was supposed to take a breath before I played the next tone. 60 bmp and always to take air on beat 4 is more for the beginners. I do this exercise around 35-40 bpm and can play 3-4 tones on one breath.

We often told to practice long tones to get a better tone. "How" to do long tones is also important. Clarence Clemons just played 3-4 tones when he was practicing on regular basis. He was into circular breathing and could hold a tone for several minutes. Also long tones!?!?!?!
 
@Dr G and @thomsax Great thank you this really helps as I didn't exactly know what I was supposed to be doing before with long tones other than just playing a note as long as I could.
You’re welcome. This is why I dislike people saying “Play long tones” when there is little sense of what that actually entails.

Read turf3‘s post for an even higher level take of what it can be. Like turf3, I am an advocate of practicing in places where it takes an effort to fill the space with your sound. I love to practice in the outdoors and open parking structures.
 
I also think playing long notes, or long tones, is pointless unless you do it in a way that actually helps you get something useful If you just play long notes it is very boring for most people and their brain just wanders.

This is really the whole premise behind the book Tone Without Tears.

So the page we have on the site is all about making long notes interesting instead of just long notes


Ex 1 Transition from legato tonguing to (vibratoless) long notes:​

tonguing.gif


Ex 2 Transition from vibratoless to vibrato:​


vibrato.gif


Ex 3 Slurring up/down an octave:​

octaves.gif


Then combine it all together

vibrato-articulation.gif


But at the last clinic I gave I introduced a way to make it even more involved/interesting/fun.
 
These are great “bolt on’s”, but you have to start with making a relatively decent note that doesn’t move all over the place pitch-wise. A healthy mf will be a good basis for getting some control and consistency.
Well, I would take issue with characterizing the development of a rich compelling pitch-stable sound at all dynamic levels as "a bolt-on". Of course if you can't make a mezzoforte sound that holds pitch and sounds reasonably pleasing, you'll need to get to that point first before you can build on it, but that's an extremely low bar to hop over. Once you can do that, then, yes, just sitting there playing long notes at mezzo-nothing level in order to check a teacher's check box is a waste of your time. All your practice exercises should be done with ATTENTION and INTENTION.

But the fact that stupidly playing some long duration notes while watching the football game is not something that will help you advance does not mean that doing forceful tone-building exercises with careful attention to what is intended and how your body works while you're doing it, is useless. It's like if I hopped on my bike and rode once around the block every day after dinner at a walking pace while smoking my pipe and then declared that bicycle riding is useless for building cardiovascular fitness - well, tell that to the guys who just finished the Vuelta de Espana.
 
It's all a case of progression - and I thing "bolt on" maybe sounded more flippant than it was meant to. It's a case of walking before you run. If someone comes to me and says: can you teach me vibrato I would first get them to play a note with no vibrato. Often they may have a preconceived vibrato that is either some thing bad (which means I don't like it) or else they have no control.

So they must first play a dead straight level - no wobbles, no hiccups - just like a straight line. Only then can they progress to the next step which is playing single vibrato that last about 10 seconds. ie it is a slow bend down and up. Then they must very gradually increase that bend (could be over days, weeks, months) until it is fast enough to be called a vibrato.

But it will be a vibrato they can control absolutely.

Hey we're getting a bit off topic, might have top split off to a new thread agin...
 
Of course if you can't make a mezzoforte sound that holds pitch and sounds reasonably pleasing, you'll need to get to that point first before you can build on it
Exactly. From what was surmised, going from the 4C to the Beechler 7, and not getting through a whole song, suggests a whole load of problems, and not being able to play pp, let alone pppp will be for starters.

I use the term “bolt-on” as it’s added value. The more you can bolt on the more you are practicing at once.
 
This exercises are very much ad lib. I just wrote down what they explained to me. I start straight and then bend down (drop your jaw) and then I take it back again. When I started to do this exercise I just bent down a little bit ( less than a quarter step) and for a short time as well. On beat four in second measure I was supposed to take a breath before I played the next tone. 60 bmp and always to take air on beat 4 is more for the beginners. I do this exercise around 35-40 bpm and can play 3-4 tones on one breath.

We often told to practice long tones to get a better tone. "How" to do long tones is also important. Clarence Clemons just played 3-4 tones when he was practicing on regular basis. He was into circular breathing and could hold a tone for several minutes. Also long tones!?!?!?!
Thanks. I find that bending by dropping the jaw is largely ineffective. The shape of the mouth cavity and tongue shape and position is what works best on pitch, as you would bend notes on a harmonica. I can usually bend a minor third on some notes, much less on others.

I never learned circular breathing.
 
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