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M/Pieces - Ligs Ligatures - do they make a difference?

MartinL

Member
Messages
375
I would never have believed it.

When I started playing I hated the Trevor James standard "soft" ligature so i went off and bought a cheap metal basic ligature from my local shop. (you know, £3 in a lucky bag".. That's the ligature i've used ever since.
The other day I saw this on ebay "220453596237, BG Tradition L11 Alto Saxophone Ligature". I made a bid and won at what i thought was a great price, but i just cant believe how its transformed the sax, its made such a difference... easier to blow and much easier to play softly..

WHY?

Well I'm well pleased.:D
 

Col9

Member
Messages
57
I would never have believed it.

When I started playing I hated the Trevor James standard "soft" ligature so i went off and bought a cheap metal basic ligature from my local shop. (you know, £3 in a lucky bag".. That's the ligature i've used ever since.
The other day I saw this on ebay "220453596237, BG Tradition L11 Alto Saxophone Ligature". I made a bid and won at what i thought was a great price, but i just cant believe how its transformed the sax, its made such a difference... easier to blow and much easier to play softly..

WHY?

Well I'm well pleased.:D
I just got a BG Tradition gold plated lig for my bari, new from Ebay £8.99 posted.
I hesitated in answering this thread for fear of being hailed "king crackpot" but after reading MartinL's post he has said exactly what I was going to in the last few lines :welldone.

Untill this lig I would have said no big difference in any of them. I have tried a BG soft lig, various brass 2 screw ones and a rovner all the pretty much the same. BUT now I would have to yes they definatly can make a very noticeable difference.

Col.
 
Messages
63
I just use the Rovnor Dark that came with the mp. On my old alto I initially used a BG but moved to the Rovner Eddie Daniels. I kind of think it made a difference.

Anyone done any test/comparisons? Is there anything I should try out? I have a Jody Jazz DV NY.

Or is it all bunkum and a laccy band will do!
read my otto link 'post' I did try this for real....
 

MartinL

Member
Messages
375
read my otto link 'post' I did try this for real....
I did read it, and I cant imagine why any ligature should make any difference. it should be possible to use a jubilee clip. I know why i didn't like the "soft" ligature, it was because I couldn't keep the reed secure without overtightening the screw. I don't know why this BG should make any difference over the two screw metal I had before but it does, and i'm a sceptic, I wanted to say "no difference" but I cant. so I'll join the crackpot ranks too, it certainly has made a big difference in my opinion.
 

Rodzart

New Member
Messages
24
Just a thought from a beginner.
How much difference does the positioning of the ligature make, that is sliding ligature towards the mouth or further back down the mouthpiece. The width of ligatures are probably different and would simulate different positions, wider would give same effect as being more forward,

does that make sense,

Rod
 
OP
half diminished

half diminished

Senior Member
Messages
1,343
Well, bough a Francoire Louis Ultimate ligature in gold plate



Initially sounded a bit brighter, less dark but after a couple of weeks I can confirm that it has made no difference to my sound at all though as previously mentioned playing in the upper register now seems to be easier and there is more projection. Or of course my embouchure has improved (as I know it continues to do) as I practice more and more!

Still, it looks real cool! :w00t:
 

dooce

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,423
Just a thought from a beginner.
How much difference does the positioning of the ligature make, that is sliding ligature towards the mouth or further back down the mouthpiece. The width of ligatures are probably different and would simulate different positions, wider would give same effect as being more forward,

does that make sense,

Rod
Surprised that none of our great authorities on the site haven't responded to that Rod, but it's a question I've often thought to ask. In my experience, it does make a difference - the closer to the tip of the mouthpiece the lig sits, there is less unclamped reed to vibrate, and this can quite substantially affect the tone and your control of it. It's well worth playing around with the lig to see what best suits you, your mouthpiece and reed.
 
OP
half diminished

half diminished

Senior Member
Messages
1,343
Surprised that none of our great authorities on the site haven't responded to that Rod, but it's a question I've often thought to ask. In my experience, it does make a difference - the closer to the tip of the mouthpiece the lig sits, there is less unclamped reed to vibrate, and this can quite substantially affect the tone and your control of it. It's well worth playing around with the lig to see what best suits you, your mouthpiece and reed.
Can't say I have noticed any difference after all the table is flat (hopefully) and by clamping the reed stock against it, the reed should be held pretty flat. Or should I get my coat! :w00t:
 
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Saxade

Senior Member
Messages
293
I believe they (ligs) do make a difference when I compare the BG with the Francois Louis, the FL is much brighter than the BG.
Whether that is because Iam using them on a metal Otto Link I don't know...
I have them both in my case and at the moment I much prefer the Francois Louis ...
Just my Two Bob's Worth ;}
 

Attachments

Jules

Formerly known as "nachoman"
Messages
4,583
I believe they (ligs) do make a difference when I compare the BG with the Francois Louis, the FL is much brighter than the BG.
Whether that is because Iam using them on a metal Otto Link I don't know...
I have them both in my case and at the moment I much prefer the Francois Louis ...
Just my Two Bob's Worth ;}
pretty much my findings too + high notes and altissimo seem to kick in easier with the FL
 

losaavedra

Member
Messages
391
Interesting thread this because any ligature discussion brings out similar points as occur when discussing guitar capos. The job of a capo is to hold down all six guitar strings at some fret position across the finger board, thus shifting the relative tuning of all the strings up the same number of semitones. Because not all guitar finger boards are flat (some have cambers) the contour of the holding-down bit needs to be taken into account, as does the general 'firmness' of the holding down mechanism, to avoid string rattle. A temporary capo can be constructed using a pencil stub at least 2cm longer than the fretboard width with an elastic band wound around the protruding ends. However, shop-bought capos come in several varieties. There are all-metal ones employing a sprung lever, plastic ones with adjustment notches, and (the ones I get on best with) those made of wood faced with a leather pad where the tightening is achieved via a cord wound round a variation of a violin peg. I have at least 8 capos around the place, six being this latter sort ... and five of those were home-made. An adaption of the wooden peg and cord idea might work quite well as a sax lig, and I might have a crack at making one some day. If its achievable then I think it would at least be aesthetically pleasing to look at! Something that's a bit tricky about sax mps is that the outer barrel sides aren't always parallel but, if extended (through your head!) converge at a point roughly 14cms beyond the mouthpiece tip. Worse, sometimes there's a curve involved too. Short of redesigning the outside of a mouthpiece to have a more straightforeward shape I think we're stuck with that problem!

Finally, on a cautionary note, the other aspect that needs to be brought out, regarding ligatures, is 'convenience'. It could be, for example, that close-binding a reed onto a sax mouthpiece (like putting rings on a fishing rod) provides the most mechanically efficient way of doing it ... but if it takes 10 or 15 minutes to do a reed change in the middle of a gig ... everyone else will go home! Again there's a similarity in dealing with string breaks on guitars. On some of mine I can change a string and re-tune in around one minute, but on one of them (a strat copy) it usually involves taking the backplate off (six screws) to first fish the broken bits out of the trem with a pair of long-nosed pliers. The guitar players amongst us will know what jolly fun that can be ... the only happy guy in the band will be the drummer as he'll see it as his cue for yet another solo!!
 
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old git

Tremendous Bore
Messages
5,550
Mike,
Take up banjo, then you'll have the fifth string capo or pegs to worry about too.

As for ligatures, anyone willing to superglue a reed to their favourite mouthpiece and report back?
 

visionari1

Senior Member
Messages
1,595
Mike,

As for ligatures, anyone willing to superglue a reed to their favourite mouthpiece and report back?
And test it while the glue is still wet....please..... and report back:D

Should make for a beautifull tone and turn of phrase!
 

berniesax

Member
Messages
135
ligatures

all the top sax players in all genres of music mainly used the two screw ligs except for the metal otto link players with the thumb screw ! up until the late seventys i guess but wow did they produce some fine sounds ! they sort of set all the standards but i agree with jonf gettin the reed right is my biggest problem.
bernie
 

Sunray

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,723
Re: ligatures

I know this is an old thread ...

On my travels through cyberspace I found this and thought it was worth posting in case anyone else was interested ...

Links to SelmerLigPatent.pdf file - The original patent for a Ligature for Reed Instruments
By GM Bundy May 7th 1940

When you click the link it should download the file automatically to your computer ...

[I have checked it and have found no virus or anything untoward attached to it] ... :)

[Link Here]
 

Nick Wyver

noisy
Subscriber
Messages
5,943
Re: ligatures

Heretofore it has been customary to employ a screw tightened ligature for holding a reed to the mouthpiece of an instrument. Such ligatures are unyielding and are capable of exerting tremendous pressure on both the reed and the mouthpiece. Consequently, use thereof can crush the resilient fibers of the read and indent the face of the reed. In addition these screw ligatures have a tendency to warp the mouthpiece by reason of the great pressure they exert, and their tight grip stifles the vibrations of both reed and mouthpiece with resultant dampening or choking of the natural tone of the instrument.
Well don't tighten them up so much then. :rolleyes:
 

old git

Tremendous Bore
Messages
5,550
Re: ligatures

Links to SelmerLigPatent.pdf file - The original patent for a Ligature for Reed Instruments
By GM Bundy May 7th 1940

[I have checked it and have found no virus or anything untoward attached to it] ... :)
Not even a reed?
 

nlancaster

Member
Messages
36
I have tried: Normal 2 screws, selmer 1 and 2 screws, harrison and rico h, all FL, theo wanne, oleg, string, vandoren optimum, bg (leather and metal), rovner light and dark, zagar "q", otto link vintage and new, metal band ligs, 3band brillhart, bay ligs, labayle ligs, beechler ligs and saxxas ligatures. I feel that all the ligs in some way will fall into a few groups of which in that group there arent enough differences to change from one to the other. However to change to a lig in a different group would change the response. Whether this be a good or bad, prefferred or unneeded change is up to the player, however I have enjoyed the design and the way each of these ligs play.
 
Saxholder Pro

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