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Tone Legato over the break

Mack

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Can anyone suggest a good way of improving my legato sound over the break - eg F to B, E to G? I know that the break is alweays a weak point on the sax, and even Amy Dickson finds it a challenge - you can hear it in the opening notes of La Strada:

At the minute I try to quickly and imperceptibly tongue the note below the break, but that is hardly ideal. How do you play it truly legato?
 
Your terminology has left me a bit confused. "Crossing the break" is an expression which is used on clarinet and refers to the change between "throat" A and what is called "long B" where the register key is added for the first time taking the clarinet from the chalumeau register to the clarion register.

I think you may be referring to the "change" on saxophone where one lifts each key one at a time to go up a scale until there are no more keys left to lift (middle C#). Then all 6 keys of the left and right hand are again added, this time with the octave key, and then the process of lifting keys one at a time begins again to go higher in the range of the instrument.

That said, I think I know what you are asking. Slurring a note which uses the octave key to a lower note which across a wide interval to a note which does not is a challenge on the saxophone, and other "conical" woodwinds. I think the reason has to do with acoustics. When an octave vent is opened it forces all of the notes using that vent to jump to their second mode which doubles the frequency measured in vibrations per second. "Shifting gears" in that direction is easy.

Where the difficulty begins is where we take a "mode 2" note and want to quickly and smoothly take it down to a "mode 1" note. For reasons I don't completely understand, a clarinet which sounds only the odd numbered overtones: 1 - 3 - 5 etc. makes these downward leaps effortlessly---something composers for this instrument take great advantage of. (see Mozart Clarinet Concerto).

I'm blabbering on and on because this is my favorite subject and I can't help myself. :oops: Now I will cut to the chase and give some tips I have leaned along the way. I am certain the "professional players" Pete Thomas, David Roach, and Aldevis can give you even more good advice on this subject.

  • As you are sounding the upper note "mentally play" the lower note which follows before changing the fingering.
  • In some cases it helps to play the "mode 2" note without the octave key by voicing it as an overtone and then doing the slur.
  • I was taught that lower notes take a more open throat and "warm air", but Harvey Pittel said Allard taught the opposite that high notes take a more open throat and low notes a more closed on. Now I don't know for sure which one to believe. Try it both ways and see what works for you.
  • It often helps to "blow into" the lower note of the interval if the dynamics of the piece will allow you do that.
  • I would use a legato tongue on the lower note as a "last resort" if nothing else works.
Thank you for posting that video. I had not heard that piece before. It is breathtakingly beautiful.

Any song that moves me to tears on the first listen is a "keeper".
 
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Don't really know if I'm out of my depth here.
I just played that La Strada intro on tenor. G, F#, G, F#, B
I found that to get a smooth legato from the F# to the B, I needed to concentrate on the airstream at the back of my throat and just back off a little before the break but don't stop the airstream. If you tongue it it's not legato.
 
For reasons I don't completely understand, a clarinet which sounds only the odd numbered overtones: 1 - 3 - 5 etc. makes these downward leaps effortlessly---something composers for this instrument take great advantage of. (see Mozart Clarinet Concerto).
And even more so in the Quintet (from about 25:45):
 
Jbtsax -
Thank you for posting that video. I had not heard that piece before. It is breathtakingly beautiful.

If you liked that, you might like this. The tune has been done to death of course, but Amy Dickson still turns in a very polished performance. Especially on the trill at the end of the first part. Tricky bit, I find. I start to run out of breath half way through.

 
Here comes our legendary off topic a at my hand today:
Mrs. Dickinson is a wonderful player, but what in the world is that entirely slow-mo video that has nothing to do with the music supposed to do for us?
 
Smooth legato going up on sax is all about finger coordination. Going down well...… @jbtsax 's advice sounds good. I haven't played classical stuff for 5 years or so and was never great at it. Too much of a rock and roller pretenda jazz guy at heart. Never willing to change my embouchure.

Going up, start really slowly focussing on absolutely smooth transition between notes. Once you can do quarters at 60 bpm without thinking about it then start to speed things up.
 
When an octave vent is opened it forces all of the notes using that vent to jump to their second mode which doubles the frequency measured in vibrations per second.

...so when you move down from middle F to B, for example, the air in the tube is initially still vibrating twice as fast (until you alter your breath somehow to change the vibration), causing that annoying high note to sound briefly before the 'true' B kicks in - is that right? If so what can you do to half the speed of the vibrations straightaway, instead of tolerating the poor start to the note?

Any takers...?
 
Think B before you blow it. It's all about the power of the embouchure and the shape of the oral cavity. Practice overtones so that your embouchure knows how to overblow on purpose and through practice, not overblow by accident.

Blow middle F without the octave key. Blow middle F from low Bb without the octave key and then B from low B no octave key.

Blow middle F with octave key and then finger low B with octave key.

The different shapes inside your mouth and throat will become auotomatic with practice.
 
...so when you move down from middle F to B, for example, the air in the tube is initially still vibrating twice as fast (until you alter your breath somehow to change the vibration), causing that annoying high note to sound briefly before the 'true' B kicks in - is that right? If so what can you do to half the speed of the vibrations straightaway, instead of tolerating the poor start to the note?

Any takers...?

The 5 tips given in my post above answer that question. Mentally playing the lower note while still on the high one works for me most of the time, as does "blowing into" the lower note.
 

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