Beginner Learning to read standard notation vs using the note names

[eb424]

I'm talking about the rhythm of the melody part itself. For some songs it's rather important (eg "Fascinating Rhythm"). How is that covered by drums, strings etc?

TBF i only play pop and rock songs..i play to words first and then remove them..Ive not heard of the song..sorry just different strokes..

Everyone that I know can read music. I understand that not reading music is your choice, but please don’t normalize it to the world. Your path is a difficult one that makes a goal of mastery a tortuous one.

Im not normalizing it..i joined a thread that was discussing it thats all..I do read music i have to.. I just dont play to scores. No need for me

I have come across players that can't read and some were excellent players, quite a few of them had relative pitch and some had perfect pitch hearing, but non that followed Eddie's way of reading but whatever works is fine it's all music at the end of the day, but you have to deal with the limitations at some time in your musical journey if you want to go down the path of playing in some situations.

When the times right and if i have to i will..I read dots but will have to sort out rhythm..

@thomsax , the only reason I dredged reading back up was a recent post from another beginner who said they didn’t want to learn to read. I was just trying to convince them that they should. I realize Eddie will never need to read charts. But it would save him the trouble of writing his own. That dead horse has been thoroughly beaten.

I admit that I rely very heavily on reading due to the nature of my gigs. I have to play hundreds of different charts all the time, many of which I never see until the downbeat at the gig. And of those, most are inner harmony parts that make no logical sense which makes them more difficult to memorize. So why bother memorizing hundreds of weird parts I may never play again?

I stand by my recommendation for any beginner to learn to read.

I am learning and do read..the reason i transfer it is to condense the score and for me navigation is easier. Also trouble withbthe size ofvthe dots..for me its just easier.

Needing to read and the usefulness of being able to read are two very different things. Obviously one needs to read to do gigs that require that ability, but the other aspect is the time you can save and the added value that it gives your practicing. If you ever want to memorise a tune, then one very important tool is the ability to read music because it allows you to internally visualise, or virtually "hear" the music just by looking at the notation.

Somewhere else it was said that when music is memorised, 9 times out of 10 you play it better. Although that may not apply to those who have memorised the music but want the notation there "just in case" - so then the confidence of knowing you could have a quick glance if you forgot something may help you.

But if you rely on reading note names then it is a method that is big waste of time and can really hold you back in terms of musicality.

But tbf Pete repetition playing to the track and looking at my scores is just the same

The way Eddie plays suits him but he has said that he wants to play with other musicians in bands and also in workshops,
the problem he has is that without reading skills there is zero opportunity for him to realise his ambition.


In 45 years of playing I have never come across this way of playing, everyone I have played with in bands have had some level of reading ability.

Solo saxophonists as oppossed to groups i guess

The limitations I was thinking of were more of the non reader not being able to do big band or other situations where reading was necessary.

I do read i have to transpose and transfer onto my lyric sheet..it makes navigating easier and the fonts bigger

As with reading music notation - ie once you have learned the song. My point above was that using conventional notation is a much quicker way to learn music because you have the immediate visual cue such as the contour of the melody and the rhythmic notation and spacing.

But I do understand that note names work if you have a mental block against the concept of learning to read music. But it is like training wheels on a bike - ideally you give them up as soon as you can in order to develop the more useful skills.

It's not a mental block. The notes written are the transposed notes..point taken re visual patterns or contour of the melody. I completely understand the importance of reading and when the time is right will prioritise it..

 

[Pete Thomas]

It's not a mental block.

In my experience, for most people who actually know that reading music is more efficient or at least better than writing in note names, it is a mental block.

 

[Pete Effamy]

When the times right and if i have to i will..I read dots but will have to sort out rhythm..

Actually, that’s no different to what you have to do with letter names. So, no time like the present Eddie..
(Please stop using the word “scores”)

 

[jazzdoh]

When the times right and if i have to i will..I read dots but will have to sort out rhythm..

You have been saying this for the last 3 years, I am interested to know what do you consider the circumstances that will lead to you making that decision.
What you can't seem to grasp is that your way is harder work in the long run.

 

[JamesOxford]

In my experience, for most people who actually know that reading music is more efficient or at least better than writing in note names, it is a mental block.

Hard agree with this. Learning the dots on the stave will take a fraction of the time it took to learn the fingerings on your actual saxophone. What I don't get from the voluminous threads everywhere on methods to circumvent needing the dots, is that the dots are an actual shortcut.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Hard agree with this. Learning the dots on the stave will take a fraction of the time it took to learn the fingerings on your actual saxophone. What I don't get from the voluminous threads everywhere on methods to circumvent needing the dots, is that the dots are an actual shortcut.

Aye, it’s a pretty good method of carrying a lot of information.

 

[Dale.]

Aye, it’s a pretty good method of carrying a lot of information.

Defo agree, tried learning the guitar and learning the letters along the fretboard,
this was a disaster until the penny dropped and the notes became chords.
I decided to learn the fingerings on the sax which became the notes which linked the notes to the stave etc.
Anyways pick what works and have fun, but then again what do I know.
Dale

 

[mizmar]

I know - don't really know what the discussion is about now it's vaguely about different genres I suppose.

Sure. But I'll bet none of the folks being discussed wrote note names on their parts (oh, er missis!).

 

[Pete Thomas]

New thread here:

Jazz players and rock & roll players - CafeSaxophone Forum

When he came to the rehearsal he started to play the solos. He could play as it was written but the rest was a big insult to Springsteen and Clemons and all the fans. A thin tone, no energy, no volume .... it was terrible!!!! How on earth could he say that it was easy! No self-criticism or...

cafesaxophone.com

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[eb424]

You have been saying this for the last 3 years, I am interested to know what do you consider the circumstances that will lead to you making that decision.
What you can't seem to grasp is that your way is harder work in the long run.

Hi @jazzdoh..I think when theres a need..i.e. if i went back to sax bandits or played with otheres who play from scores. I have had lessons and know i need to work on rhythms..I know the benefits of playing from scores as @Pete Thomas said i cant play songs i don't know which is a valid point. Time is an issue too,

I have been trying to get 20 songs under my belt. I enjoy playing and want to do the care home set or at least open mike.. ( lol cant help thinking of an autopsy) really didn't enjoy the bandit experience, holding on to play a couple of bars of a song just wasnt me..

 

[eb424]

Actually, that’s no different to what you have to do with letter names. So, no time like the present Eddie..
(Please stop using the word “scores”)

I'm refering to what i buy initially not what i do with them. Are they not scores..

 

[Pete Effamy]

I'm refering to what i buy initially not what i do with them. Are they not scores..

Not when you’ve made your own music. You’re not playing from a multiple stave, multiple instrument score.

 

[eb424]

Not when you’ve made your own music. You’re not playing from a multiple stave, multiple instrument score.

Sorry tthought i only said i buy the score and transpose on it..

 

[Pete Effamy]

Sorry tthought i only said i buy the score and transpose on it..

I saw a pic you uploaded of a page of lyrics with letter names over the top

 

[eb424]

I saw a pic you uploaded of a page of lyrics with letter names over the top

I usually buy the music in the original key and transpose for practice..I write these above the original note.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Only if they are written on the actual music notation.

But if they are like this, as discussed in post #18:

then the notes cannot be perceived on the staff unless you can already read music.

This is not a score Eddie. (It’s not music either, but…)

 

[eb424]

This is not a score Eddie. (It’s not music either, but…)

Sorry if im sounding argumentative or rather dogmatic not meaning to. But that came from this

 

[Pete Effamy]

This is not a score Eddie. (It’s not music either, but…)

A whole piece of music, with all instruments shown is called a score.
Piano parts are usually referred to as that, a piano score.
Other parts are usually called “parts” ie sax part, flute part etc.
- I’m not sure of a note in my part so can I check the score -
It’s confusing to just call everything you use a score.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Sorry if im sounding argumentative or rather dogmatic not meaning to. But that came from this

But it isn’t that now! I came from my mum but I’m not called Pam…

 

[Pete Effamy]

…often