Playing the saxophone Keys that rock and blues players play in

[thomsax]

Rock- & Blues saxophonist is often playing in concert F, G, A, C, D, E. Even concert B is important.
Jr Walter was often in concert Ab so the Bb was important for him. Junior didn't use the altissimo fingerlings so much. He fingered the low Bb, B ..... pressed up. His altissimo were very clean and powerful. A very physical player. Relaxed ???????

 

[Pete Thomas]

Rock- & Blues saxophonist is often playing in concert F, G, A, C, D, E. Even concert B is important.

True. Although people often think of rock as mainly in E, A etc “guitar friendly” keys, I’d often be playing in all the keys. 50s rock especially would be lots of Bb, Eb, and quite often Db, Ab so possibly altogether more diverse than a lot of jazz repertoire. But I’d say with maybe B and F# being a bit less common.

 

[John Laughter]

His altissimo were very clean and powerful.

Not to get off the subject but I read an interview with Jr. years ago and the one thing that really impressed me was his discussion on recording. He made sure that his tenor had just enough "highs" or "treble" or "brightness" or whatever one wants to call it so that his tenor sound/tone was always up in the final mix. I had a lot of respect for that.

Over the years I have heard so many Rock & Roll and R&B sax solos on Top 40 hits that are "just there" in the recording and could have sounded so much better with some tweaking in the final mix. But that's just my opinion.

Let's hear it for the guitar keys of E and A one has to learn them on sax to survive and get hired.

Thom and Pete I hope you are doing well and that the gigs are plentiful and fun!

 

[thomsax]

One of the first song I learned (by ear/memory)on alto was John Fogerty's rockballad "Long As I Can See The Light". A song in concert B. I played in G#/Ab. A few later I learned it on tenor as well and in C#/Db. I had no sheet music so I didn't knew what I was doing. Magic Sam a k a Samuel Maghett recorded some in concert B as well. Buster Benton's "Lonesome For A Dime" is in concert B ..... so there are some songs but it's not a common key. C#/Db on tenor or bari ..... . I have never played a song in concert Db. But Ab, Eb, Bb are pretty common. Albert King, Jr Walker, Steve Ray Vaughn ...... was often in flat keys. It's easier for me to read # instead of b.

 

[zelda]

One of the first song I learned (by ear/memory)on alto was John Fogerty's rockballad "Long As I Can See The Light". A song in concert B. I played in G#/Ab. A few later I learned it on tenor as well and in C#/Db. I had no sheet music so I didn't knew what I was doing. Magic Sam a k a Samuel Maghett recorded some in concert B as well. Buster Benton's "Lonesome For A Dime" is in concert B ..... so there are some songs but it's not a common key. C#/Db on tenor or bari ..... . I have never played a song in concert Db. But Ab, Eb, Bb are pretty common. Albert King, Jr Walker, Steve Ray Vaughn ...... was often in flat keys. It's easier for me to read # instead of b.

I read that SRV and Jimi Hendrix tuned their guitars down a half step to Eb for ease of singing.
On acoustic guitar, I like to play 'Sweet Molly Malone' and 'Dirty Old Town' in the key of Concert G because I like the sound of the chords.
However, I like the sound of my voice better if I'm singing in F#. If I tune down a half step, I'm singing/playing in F# but my chords are still G, Em,Am, C and D shapes.

 

[thomsax]

I read that SRV and Jimi Hendrix tuned their guitars down a half step to Eb for ease of singing.
On acoustic guitar, I like to play 'Sweet Molly Malone' and 'Dirty Old Town' in the key of Concert G because I like the sound of the chords.
However, I like the sound of my voice better if I'm singing in F#. If I tune down a half step, I'm singing/playing in F# but my chords are still G, Em,Am, C and D shapes.

If a guitar player is not tuning down to Eb we used to play in concert E. It was not so much about making it easier for the guitarist more that the electric guitar comes out great in concert E. For the 3-horn section (trp,ts,bs) it was a big change. F to F# for Bb horns and C to C# for baritone. 1 flat to 6 sharps for trumpet and tenor and no flats or sharps to 7 sharps (or 5 flats) for baritone. A half step can be heaven or hell. I just read when I learn a song. I was playing by memory. That limited the number of songs and also the degree of difficulty when it came to horn arrangements. That didn't mean we did practice as a horn section. We compensated the easy horn arrangements with trying to a have a big and "loud" sound. We used to play 3-4 or SRV songs. A singer use to sing in E and lower the key when it not possible to sing in E. Use to be in the end of tour or any other reasons ..... .

When I hear a song I want to learn/play I always learn it in the original key or the key that it's recorded. When I played in groups it was often the singer that decided the key. Also what the group was able to do ...... . But if we didn't want home with a happy soul and a good feeling we had picked the wrong songs. I/we were just playing for fun.

 

[lydian]

We aspiring jazz players try to learn everything in every key. Seems like a worthy goal for rock players as well. It's great for your ear, technique and understanding of harmony.

 

[Pete Thomas]

We aspiring jazz players try to learn everything in every key.

Speak for yourself 🙂

Well seriously, I haven’t been aspiring for 50 years.

I do learn licks in every key but never tunes although I do like to make sure I can play simple tunes in every key as it’s good ear training.

Doing it with complex stuff, eg bebop tunes, just makes my brain hurt.

 

[mizmar]

We aspiring jazz players try to learn everything in every key. Seems like a worthy goal for rock players as well. It's great for your ear, technique and understanding of harmony.

I know I'm aspiring to aspire...

... But, seems to me, some stuff just sits under the fingers better - and so is easier to get flowing - in some keys than others - at least when learning something that's been arranged for / composed for / transcribed from sax.

Maybe that's another issue for key preference? At least for intermediate players?

 

[lydian]

I know I'm aspiring to aspire...

... But, seems to me, some stuff just sits under the fingers better - and so is easier to get flowing - in some keys than others - at least when learning something that's been arranged for / composed for / transcribed from sax.

Maybe that's another issue for key preference? At least for intermediate players?

For sure. I much prefer playing stuff in easy keys. But the idea is to make the hard keys flow the same as the easy keys.

This guy is my hero:

View: https://youtu.be/kLhg7_Z8Iuo


I'm still aspiring after 40+ years of playing because I still have a lot to learn.

 

[thomsax]

We aspiring jazz players try to learn everything in every key. Seems like a worthy goal for rock players as well. It's great for your ear, technique and understanding of harmony.

Yes, you're right. To learn and play in all keys and styles is optimally. But you have to put in lots of time. Ok, that's individually. Some have to spend lots of time to learn to play in all keys. Other less. But what to do with guys that have a job, family, house, .... . There are, (were?) guys that are just fine with playing the predicable and easy 12 bar electric guitar blues in concert C, F, Bb, G ..... and most of us don't know what we are doing. We don't read, or pretending not to read read to blend in better. For most of us (blues- and rock honkers) the music is just a fun and relaxing thing. When I studied economic at the university I discovered I was , more or less, just writing and reading. So I started to learn how to cook as well. I could do all the basic sauces (classic/international French school) and other things that a good chef had to be able to do and know. When I became a teacher (teaching chef) I thought that there were lots young aspiring cooks that was like me when I was young. Needless to say, but I was so disappointed.

My favorite rock and blues keys are concert A and E. In concert A I'm grounded. Safe and secure. In concert E the electric guitar comes out fine and it's also a more challenging key compared to concert A. Especially if you are playing on old bari. It's like making a soufflé. Most of the time it turns out well but it can also be a disaster. Thrilling ..... . Yes, the thrill is not gone.

 

[lydian]

@thomsax , I'm an amateur with a home, family and full time job just like you. I don't practice 8 hours a day. I'm lucky to practice 1 hour per week (outside of group rehearsals). But it only takes a few minutes to learn a lick or phrase in all keys using your ears and a little theory, no reading involved. The more you practice doing it, the better a musician you are and the less time it takes. I find it to be really worthwhile, and it kills many birds with one stone - ears, theory, key signatures, scales, chords, theory, technique, range. There is no downside. You should give it a try sometime.

 

[Ivan]

View: https://youtu.be/kLhg7_Z8Iuo

What better reason not to play a tune in all keys?

 

[thomsax]

You should give it a try sometime.

I was into it. I just couldn't understand why? It was not me playing or blowing the sax. I tried to fit in "jazz" but I couldn't find a place. I like jazz but I don't want to play it. Big band jazz like this is just too advanced for me.

View: https://youtu.be/_S0diyw0Lgc

 

[lydian]

I was into it. I just couldn't understand why? It was not me playing or blowing the sax. I tried to fit in "jazz" but I couldn't find a place. I like jazz but I don't want to play it. Big band jazz like this is just too advanced for me.

View: https://youtu.be/_S0diyw0Lgc

Since I’ve been lead tenor in one big band or another for nearly 40 years, the above is my bread and butter. I’ll take gigs in any genre however, including rock, blues, r&b, all of which I enjoy and respect. I try to play every genre authentically and sincerely. I just don’t find them as satisfying or challenging as jazz, which for me is like solving a complicated puzzle. Unfortunately for me, it’s also something hardly anyone wants to listen to anymore. So rock and r&b is the only way to actually get gigs and make money.

But my point with playing in all keys was not to make you better at jazz or even play jazz at all, just to improve your ears and technique, making you a better player overall, and making everything you play much easier.

 

[John Laughter]

however, including rock, blues, r&b, all of which I enjoy and respect.

And it's fun music to play and to see the dancers having a good time. We could use MORE good times these days

 

[lydian]

And it's fun music to play and to see the dancers having a good time. We could use MORE good times these days

For sure. My most fun gigs are actually with my 20s/30s and trad jazz bands where the dancers are really into it. Their energy rubs off on me.

 

[John Laughter]

Their energy rubs off on me.