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Saxophones Keilworth SX90 - tone holes warping

Nick Wyver

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Not in my experience.

Steven Howard's probably seen more Keilwerths than I have though.

I'd have thought, if it plays ok then it probably is ok.

Bear in mind that the review dates back 12 years and the latest bit of it (2013) gives them (guardedly, admittedly) the thumbs up. So buying new should be fine and secondhand ones you might want to check yourself or with a tech. But that applies to any sax - not just Keilwerths.

BTW it should be "warped" rather than "warping". They don't change.
 

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it`s not the actual toneholes but the pseudo-rolled ring they solder on isn`t straight from what he says ....
easily fixable by a good tech like Steve (solder a new one one or take the old one off and fix it) . that review makes you think that you stand a high chance of getting a dud but I can`t believe that the numerous SX90R owners there are would put up with a horn that doesn`t play properly,

Bad on Keilwerth for letting a Single horn through like this - Mega-bad for letting it drag on for over a decade
 

ProfJames

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it`s not the actual toneholes but the pseudo-rolled ring they solder on isn`t straight from what he says ....
easily fixable by a good tech like Steve (solder a new one one or take the old one off and fix it) . that review makes you think that you stand a high chance of getting a dud but I can`t believe that the numerous SX90R owners there are would put up with a horn that doesn`t play properly,

Bad on Keilwerth for letting a Single horn through like this - Mega-bad for letting it drag on for over a decade
That is still an extra cost to factor for when buying an expensive saxophone. Will need to try an EX which I believe does not have the "rolled" part added
 

Nick Wyver

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SX90s don't either. It's only the SX90R. I believe the more modern EXs are not German built.

Test playing it is not an extra cost.
 

ProfJames

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SX90s don't either. It's only the SX90R. I believe the more modern EXs are not German built.

Test playing it is not an extra cost.
I would be skint if test playing was chargeable! Appreciate your experience thank you.
 

thomsax

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The Keilwerth SX90R I've played/tried were all good players. The rolled toneholes on Keilwerth's are mad by soldering on an extra ring? Is it the same with other Asian manufactors? Or are they using the old method?
 

ProfJames

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Are all Keilworth make in Taiwan? I thought it was Germany.....
 

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SX90 series made in Germany , always have been , STs, EXs whatever - who knows , could be China, Taiwan even east Germany or Czech republic based on age .

Thom, I thought Mauriats etc had proper rolled toneholes (as in the real thing, formed when pulled)
 

thomsax

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Some Keilwerth models were made by KHS (Jupiter). Straight toneholes on these. Otherwise Keilwerths are made in Nauheim (near Frankfurt). I've been there. They made a new alto neck to an old Toneking. It was back in early 80's.

I mean are other taiwanese saxes with rolled toneholes done by soldering on an extra ring?
 

thomsax

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SX90 series made in Germany , always have been , STs, EXs whatever - who knows , could be China, Taiwan even east Germany or Czech republic based on age .

Thom, I thought Mauriats etc had proper rolled toneholes (as in the real thing, formed when pulled)

Thanks.

Back in the 70's Keilwerths student saxes were made by Amati-Denak, CZ.
 

DavidUK

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Yes, SX has straight tone holes, SX R rolled ones. Maybe drop Steve a PM to see if he's seen any SX's with warped holes?

If you're adding Keilwerth to the list of possible tenors, I have a theory that Hanson may have a connection with Keilwerth so maybe add them too? This goes back to my thread here: http://cafesaxophone.com/threads/well-well-my-new-hanson-is-a-buffet-400.11107/

Bearing in mind Alastair is a consultant to Buffet and told me himself that the SA5 is a Buffet 400 in disguise, and that Buffet own Keilwerth, and that The SA5 body is made in Germany... well, elementary!

Why not phone Alastair, explain your search for a tenor, possibly an SX90, and he'll soon volunteer whether that has a connection with the ST8 or other of his models. Just an idea....
 

altissimo

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bear in mind that a sax repairer like Stephen Howard will see more problems than the rest of us - few people will take a perfectly functioning instrument in for an overhaul and he does get a little bit obsessive about certain issues - eg bell to body braces.
It's possible that there may have been a dip in quality control around the time that Boosey & Hawkes group took over Keilwerth and started reorganising things. Reports indicate that the current Keilwerths are excellent instruments
My mate's SX 90R tenor didn't have any issues with warped tone holes, the pads tended to stick a bit, but that's a problem that is common to rolled tone holes in general - my Conn's the same - drying the pads after use helps.
The keywork was a bit of a stretch for my small hands, but I don't get on with Yamaha's ergonomics either. I'd love to try one of the old New King or Tone Kings to see if they're any better for my Martin and Conn loving ways
It's the sound that makes you want a Keilwerth, big and fat and gutsy, perfect for old fashioned blues honking.. go try one and see for yourself
 

thomsax

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Yes, SX has straight tone holes, SX R rolled ones. Maybe drop Steve a PM to see if he's seen any SX's with warped holes?

If you're adding Keilwerth to the list of possible tenors, I have a theory that Hanson may have a connection with Keilwerth so maybe add them too? This goes back to my thread here: http://cafesaxophone.com/threads/well-well-my-new-hanson-is-a-buffet-400.11107/

Bearing in mind Alastair is a consultant to Buffet and told me himself that the SA5 is a Buffet 400 in disguise, and that Buffet own Keilwerth, and that The SA5 body is made in Germany... well, elementary!

Why not phone Alastair, explain your search for a tenor, possibly an SX90, and he'll soon volunteer whether that has a connection with the ST8 or other of his models. Just an idea....

Do you know if the "Hanson 8" bodies are made as the SX90. What I really like is the wide/big space between body and bell on SX90. I found a website were they sold a "Hanson 8" for £ 1500.00!
 

thomsax

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I'd love to try one of the old New King or Tone Kings to see if they're any better for my Martin and Conn loving ways
I have a "The New King" (avatar) from -68. The ergonomics are more "cave man like". The toneholes are in line. Worse than my "The Martins". I don't know about the older New King.
 

DavidUK

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Do you know if the "Hanson 8" bodies are made as the SX90. What I really like is the wide/big space between body and bell on SX90. I found a website were they sold a "Hanson 8" for £ 1500.00!

I'm hoping the Prof will phone Alastair and ask. I could, but pointless us all wasting his time with the same questions! Prof?

(SA8 alto on ebay for £400 atm).
 

altissimo

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I have a "The New King" (avatar) from -68. The ergonomics are more "cave man like". The toneholes are in line. Worse than my "The Martins". I don't know about the older New King.
just what I'm looking for!!
 

ProfJames

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Crikey the pressure that DavidUK puts on me! Busy interviewing at present so will get to Alistair over the next few days. If anyone can share any more information on the SA8/SX90 thing......................
 

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Alastair will not tell you which German maker did the SA8 bodies or even if its east or west germnay, I`ve asked him a couple of times and he has a good reason why he won`t (supplier politics) , also not all SA8s have German bodies , the newest ones apparently don`t ..

trying to pin down what was made where (even within parts of the same horn) with Hanson Saxes is a minefield at best and to be honest, just confuses the whole thing .. the SA5 is easier as its all Chinese as David said (at least one revision was a Buffet 400) , the higher ones have or had parts made in Germany, China, Taiwan and here .

To be honest, it just clouds the issue, go to Yorkshire , play the horn and see if it fits is the best way to evaluate them and fairest . buying an older SA8 hoping its an SX90 with Chinese or Taiwanese keywork is flaky at best - though if it is, there is a possibility you could end up with a better SX90 than a real one !!
 

ProfJames

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flaky at best - though if it is, there is a possibility you could end up with a better SX90 than a real one !!

And that is the point in question!
 

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