Saxophone beginners Keeping Time

[ktmdom]

Hi all,

It's been quite a while since I last posted but I'm still at it (and loving it).

It has been almost a year now and somethings have changed. I have decided against doing my Grade 1 exam and doing Grade 1 Jazz instead as this to me is much more fun and I love the improvisation.

This brings me to my question keeping time? As part of the Jazz syllabus I have to play say 8 bars or so... improvise for 8 bars, then come in again for the remaining 4 bars.

I get that carried away making up my own little tune, I don't know when to come in. Even if I tap my feet it doesn't really help because I'm not aware that I'm doing it(does that sound odd).

I've chosen three songs1. Mack the knife, 2.Freddie Freeloader, 3.Oye como va

Thanks for any help

Dom

 

[Colin the Bear]

Take some dance lessons. If eight bars is difficult to feel, try two fours.

 

[ktmdom]

Funny you should say that, I got honours In my Grade 2 Tap when I was 16.

 

[MandyH]

when you improvise, do it in 2 bar (or 4 bar) passages,
that way you know when you've reached 4 x 2 or 2 x 4 bars and have finished your 8 bars.

I assume you improvise to a backing track? if so, listen to the track, sing your improvisation along to the track, feel how the track changes underneath you. Listen out for a "hook" in the backing track - maybe the drummer hits the hit-hat on the 3rd beat of the final bar (?!)... so you know when to return to the head.

 

[Tenor Viol]

You may want to try sitting and listening to some tunes whilst counting. The usual way to count is: 1234, 2234, 3234, 4234, etc. If you're using backing tracks, you will probably find there are clues in it such as a bass drum and drum kit 'fill' or a keyboard riff of some sort that indicates the end of an 8 bar passage.
I'm no expert on soloing, but you do need to develop an awareness of the accompaniment - and that's no different if you're improvising or playing an arrangement with a band or orchestra. It helps you develop a sense of 'where' you are.

EDIT: looks like Mandy and I were typing at the same time!

 

[Jazzaferri]

If you learn to hear where the music is and deeply know where it is going to go, then in the long run, you will find you don't run into roadblocks years down the road.

First step is to know the melody so well you can step in at any logical point and finish it off without thinking. Takes time to learn things that deeply but if one wants to really be able to improvise its kinda where one has to get to.

 

[MarkSax]

Have the same problem. I found the youtube videos where they play the backing track and you can follow/play the notes highlighted quite good in helping me not only keep time but learn about keeping time. here is one link:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMMyxhTJYq8
, many more on there.

 

[Zugzwang]

Good thread! Thanks @ktmdom.
What I am trying to do - no idea if it's VeryBad for some reason I haven't thought of - is "skeletalise" the tune. So I play it straight, then each time through, play less of the tune notes in each bar, and a few of my own but still leaving the 'important' ones. Eventually the tune is like a ghost that is there but not there.

 

[Tenor Viol]

@Zugzwang that's a fair approach I think. Also, the opposite as it were: if you are faced with something tricky, put in the notes on the main beats - but don't start a note on a main beat f that's not what's written. If you've got a heap of semi-quavers for example, put in the quavers.

I've found the music to the Bach I had to play on Sunday - below - I had to use all my survival techniques to get through that (I was on the bottom line). I did in this case try to play all the semi-quavers as omitting them wouldn't have worked. The crucial trick here was to make sure that you stayed in time - yes, I did skip the odd note, but I stayed in time and there is absolutely no room to 'dwell' on a wrong note - you've got to keep going.

 

[ktmdom]

Thanks very much for all the advice I'll give it a go. I didn't do too bad tonight in my lesson, the only thing is on one of the tracks there doesn't seem to be any sort of hook as to where to come back in.