Beginner Joe Allard: great sax players can make a classic sound with a Jazz embouchure

[saxofiend]

Hi Horn People !

Is there anybody here or famous that can make a classic sax sound with a Jazz Embouchure ?

If Joe Allard is 100% correct then surely by altering the back of throat and tongue position a classic sound can be generated using a jazz embouchure ..

I am a noobie woobie , I also possess a set of lower teeth that would make a Pitbull jealous .They are not only razor sharp but they point backwards into my mouth and different angles !

So my lower lip does suffer sometimes . I know about diff ways to protect lower lip but surely great jazz players can change their throat and tongue to get the same classical sound .

I am a dumbo but if top classical players e.g. Amy Dickson use something to protect their lower lip then doesn t that mean that ‘ some ‘ tension is being used to control the tone etc.. ?

I know jazz folks stay loose and chill , that is defo good for me , but to my great surprise some classical music dor sax is v v beautiful .NOT concertos for me though , the Glazunov sound horrible to me !

I thought it would be v cool if a jazz embouchure really could get the same sound as a classical embouchure when playing classical music .

Is there anybody here that can sound like Marcel Mule using a jazz embouchure or famous that did / does now ?

After decades of practise can it be done .........I might be able to then a day before I pass on ! Ahahhaha..

Kind Wishes to all .

P.S . I now alternate days between jazz and classical embouchure for playing diff stuff .

 

[jbtsax]

There is no simple response to a question about such a complex topic. The differences between classical saxophone and jazz saxophone go far beyond just the "embouchure". They include:

• Jaw/Tongue Position
• Oral Cavity
• Embouchure
• Articulation
• Vibrato and intonation
• Equipment
• Concept

The in depth study in this link explores the differences and variations of both styles of playing including responses to a series of questions by 10 of the top saxophonists in the country who excel in playing both styles.

Approaching the Classical Style a Resource for Jazz Saxophonists

 

[JamesOxford]

Approaching the Classical Style a Resource for Jazz Saxophonists

Thanks for that @jbtsax

 

[saxofiend]

There is no simple response to a question about such a complex topic. The differences between classical saxophone and jazz saxophone go far beyond just the "embouchure". They include:

• Jaw/Tongue Position
• Oral Cavity
• Embouchure
• Articulation
• Vibrato and intonation
• Equipment
• Concept

The in depth study in this link explores the differences and variations of both styles of playing including responses to a series of questions by 10 of the top saxophonists in the country who excel in playing both styles.

Approaching the Classical Style a Resource for Jazz Saxophonists

Thk u for your source of info ! Also Ur answer shows how LITTLE I know ! So I guess asking from a zero knowledge point is a win for me . my cup is v v empty so I am happy to fill it up . Generosity in sharing knowledge / experience is a v good human trait .kind wishes

 

[Yansalis]

This thread from another forum addresses the issues in this thread in a way I could never hope to adequately summarize and certainly not state as authoritatively as the original authors. I will just add that it is worth noting that the generally useful paper JBT posted was written by a Teal advocate.

Classical Saxophonists Using Allard Embouchure

How many well known classical saxophonists today use the embouchure taught by Joe Allard? John

www.saxontheweb.net

 

[saxofiend]

This thread from another forum addresses the issues in this thread in a way I could never hope to adequately summarize and certainly not state as authoritatively as the original authors. I will just add that it is worth noting that the generally useful paper JBT posted was written by a Teal advocate.

Classical Saxophonists Using Allard Embouchure

How many well known classical saxophonists today use the embouchure taught by Joe Allard? John

www.saxontheweb.net

Hey thk u for that link .It was v informative ! Also my own takeaway is if I focus on ‘feeling ‘ the reed in a soft ‘loving ‘ = less / no biting .I must learn to love that reed as if it is made of glass ! ONLY a little tension ...kind wishes

 

[7201]

I think that the concept is the biggest hurdle. Getting a good sound is not solely about the technique as jbt points out - you have to have a good idea of what you are trying to create. That takes years of study as you’re ears will need to be educated too. This process is doubled if you want to play anything non-classical too, and with some players it can be counter productive but not with all.

style of vibrato is different too, the technique and the how and where.

A Paul Desmond West Coast sound is possibly easily achieved by coming away from the focus of a classical sound and dialling in some air along with a slacker embouchure.

Classical to Sanborn/Brecker - these are a universe away from one another.

 

[saxofiend]

I think that the concept is the biggest hurdle. Getting a good sound is not solely about the technique as jbt points out - you have to have a good idea of what you are trying to create. That takes years of study as you’re ears will need to be educated too. This process is doubled if you want to play anything non-classical too, and with some players it can be counter productive but not with all.

style of vibrato is different too, the technique and the how and where.

A Paul Desmond West Coast sound is possibly easily achieved by coming away from the focus of a classical sound and dialling in some air along with a slacker embouchure.

Classical to Sanborn/Brecker - these are a universe away from one another.

In place of ‘yrs ‘ for me add decades ! I suffer 24/7 tinnitus with internal head vibration from an Army Heli crash.....so my ears are only educated to whining altissimo sounds the same as heli rotor blades .I do understand your point and I am grateful .many thks and kind wishes !