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IDENTIFY the AVATAR OBJECT:

Hal the Elder

New Member
Messages
163
Whoever correctly identifies the object wins a box of #3 VanDoren Contrabass Sarrusophone Reeds.

(It's a device I designed and built myself, and I only wish I could show it in 600X800 pixel size..)

HAL
 
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Chris

Well Known
Subscriber
Messages
3,821
A machine for playing the saxophone.. So you can sit back and listen

Chris..
 

navarro

Senior Member
Messages
863
Hi Hal difficult to see as you say due to pixel size but I will have a go. A moonshine still or a contraption which whacks you over the head when you blow a bum note. Regds N.
 

QWales

Senior Member
Messages
722
Yep could do with an attachment to open, can't really see it. It looks like something that generates electricity, like a windmill based van der graaf generator. I would expect to see a spark going accross the top two electrodes. Or an attempt at a perpetual motion machine or summut.
 

aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,125
I agree with Navarro.
You should patent it as "sax educator" or "sax machine"

I had a similar project in the past for guitarists: they receive an electric shock proportional with the volume of their amp. A simple but effective device to make the world a better place.
 

Hal the Elder

New Member
Messages
163
Mr Q. Wales:


It is a device which generates an Electrostatic Charge. It's not a Van de Graaff, but produces similar results.

This one generates about 300,000 volts, and can arc across a 13" gap when the capacitors are charged 100 % and the humidity is 40 % or lower.

I designed my hand-crank drive to produce about 180 RPM for the two 25" counter-rotating Acrylic discs.

HAL
 
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spike

Old Indian
Messages
2,261
Hi Hal,
Question: What happens when the humidity is higher than 40%, where I live the ambient humidity rarely drops below about 60% minimum? So under the those conditions the gap would have to be well above 13". - I was never very good at physics.
 

QWales

Senior Member
Messages
722
Mr Q. Wales:


It is a device which generates an Electrostatic Charge. It's not a Van de Graaff, but produces similar results.

This one generates about 300,000 volts, and can arc across a 13" gap when the capacitors are charged 100 % and the humidity is 40 % or lower.

HAL
Ah ha, well if I came close enough to winning, I'll donate the reeds to the first person you can find with a Contrabass Sarrusophone or anyone looking for a small surf board. Sticking with the subject matter, did you lend that to Nick Wyver to do his avatar.. ;}
 

Hal the Elder

New Member
Messages
163
HEY SPIKE:

Just the opposite is true.

With increasing RH, the efficiency of all electrostatic machines decreases unless they're in a sealed environment where humdity can be controlled. The charges "bleed off" through the damp atmosphere, which is why I have a Humidity Indicator mounted on my machine. When it rises to about 45%, I don't bother running it because it's too damp.

My machine at your 60% RH would probably yield only 200,000 volts, with an arc length of less than 9 inches.

This is because Electrostatic generators depend on dielectric surface effects to generate their charge instead of Inductive/Capacitive resonant voltages, which are then boosted by Transformers to achieve their high voltage outputs, as in a Tesla Coil.

There are no electrically conductive elements in the generation of electrostatic charges. They are created by the movement of DRY dielectric materials (insulators) moving in close proximity to each other.

Of course, copper conductors are used to transfer the charge from the 25" counter-rotating Acrylic discs to the storage capacitors, and then to the discharge terminals.

When you shut off a Tesla Coil, everything dies instantly. When you shut off an Electrostatic generator, under low humidity conditions the capacitors can retain their charge for many hours, even a day or more!

HAL
 
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Hal the Elder

New Member
Messages
163
OK...Here's the answer:

It's an Italian Bonetti Machine (1890) which is a derivative of the British Wimshurst Machine (1880).

The Bonetti eliminates the sectors found on the Wimshurst, making it simpler to build, with the disadvantage that it isn't self-starting, like the Wimshurst.

This is why you'll notice the small Van de Graaff generator on the left side of the chassis, which is used for "priming" the discs with an electrostatic charge.

However, in low humidity, even the Bonetti is self-starting...just turn the crank a few revolutions and hear the hiss of those collector points picking up the charge from the discs and handing it to the Capacitors, which build up, and then BANG!

HAL
 

spike

Old Indian
Messages
2,261
I see, yes, of course, converse to my initial train of thought and taking into account the dielectric surface effect, it would certainly explain why I married my first wife at sea level in humid conditions and my second at high altitude wearing a dry T-Shirt and blue jeans. Since as you so rightly say there are no electrically conductive elements in the generation of electrostatic charges it can only have been due to the the movement of DRY dielectric materials (insulators) moving in close proximity to each other as well as the effects of differing humidity and altitude on the dielectric surfaces of the T-Shirts. (As far as I can remember the storage capacitors were equally charged on both occasions). However, don't look back - sparks still fly whatever the weather, maybe I should change the name of my band to Antonio Bonetti and the BANG - gruss - spike
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Subscriber
Messages
21,947
I see, yes, of course, converse to my initial train of thought and taking into account the dielectric surface effect, it would certainly explain why I married my first wife at sea level in humid conditions and my second at high altitude wearing a dry T-Shirt and blue jeans. Since as you so rightly say there are no electrically conductive elements in the generation of electrostatic charges it can only have been due to the the movement of DRY dielectric materials (insulators) moving in close proximity to each other as well as the effects of differing humidity and altitude on the dielectric surfaces of the T-Shirts. (As far as I can remember the storage capacitors were equally charged on both occasions). However, don't look back - sparks still fly whatever the weather, maybe I should change the name of my band to Antonio Bonetti and the BANG - gruss - spike
Good one!
 

Hal the Elder

New Member
Messages
163
HEY SPIKE:

I must compliment you as a skilled practitioner of the English Language, fully in the same league as Mr. Navarro and Myself!

Kudos to you and your clever and refreshing verbiage!

I assume you are also an accomplished Saxophonist, eh what?

HAL
 
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aldevis

Surrealist Contributor.
Cafe Moderator
Messages
12,125
maybe I should change the name of my band to Antonio Bonetti and the BANG - gruss - spike
Van Der Graaf Generator had the idea first. Unless you want to set up a cover band doing Italian renditions of their tunes...
 

navarro

Senior Member
Messages
863
OK...Here's the answer:

It's an Italian Bonetti Machine (1890) which is a derivative of the British Wimshurst Machine (1880).

The Bonetti eliminates the sectors found on the Wimshurst, making it simpler to build, with the disadvantage that it isn't self-starting, like the Wimshurst.

This is why you'll notice the small Van de Graaff generator on the left side of the chassis, which is used for "priming" the discs with an electrostatic charge.

However, in low humidity, even the Bonetti is self-starting...just turn the crank a few revolutions and hear the hiss of those collector points picking up the charge from the discs and handing it to the Capacitors, which build up, and then BANG!

HAL
Ok Hal But what does it do? I`m afraid my physics are quite basic. I gave up on same when I got to the page relating to Arithemateca of Diophantus of Alexandria. Although I must confess it helped me in resolving the second line of Fermats last theory. Here is a little in joke( Physicists and Mathematicians only) Cuius rei demonstrationem mirabilem sane detexi hanc marginis exiguitas non caperet. (Ever the failed standup He He) Seriously though is it a Humidifier because you know you can buy them in Walmart for 26 dollars, instead of chopping down 2 trees to build one. Trees must be be pretty scarce in the Mojave. Lot`s of Laughs. N>:)
 
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