How to create these "New Orleans" embellishments?

IllinoisJ

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Perhaps this is a very basic question.

In this video, at 3:07, the clarinet player explains what New Orleans style of jazz does to a standard melody. "You can't just play the melody the way it's written on the page, or it doesn't sound like very much... That's not so interesting. I like to use pickups to prepare or introduce the phrase of the melody, or responses after the phrase is played, to link the phrases together... Soloing the New Orleans style is really a lot about embellishing the melody".

I know it's improvisation, but it's not just any style of improvisation. It "sounds" unmistakably New Orleans, even without the effects he shows at the end. I can hear that he "fills the space" with a succession of shorter notes while the piano is striding the tempo. But how does one make these extra melodies? What are the notes to play "between phrases" to get these New Orleans embellishments? Is there a "New Orleans" recipe? If there is a book explaining that, could you recommend one?


View: https://youtu.be/4JnXC3xxtww?t=187
 
Sidney, Johnny Dodds, Omer Simeon, Barney Bigard, you name them.
They didn’t graduate at Berklee or watch YouTube. Miserable guys, really…
They listened to each other and jammed together.
 
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Listen and learn. Listen and copy. Invent.
Composition on the fly.

Look at the chords of a jazz arrangement and play the chord tones. An AABA NO number will have a turn around at the end of each segment. Follow the chord tones of the sequence as they progress.

The phrasing should echo the lyric. Listen to Louis Armstrong singing/talking between the lyric. Bing Crosby is good at it too.

Practice playing without accompaniment and make it interesting.

In a standard small ensemble with a three part front line, trumpet has the lead and reeds decorate, harmonise and fill. Trombone can play rhythm, call and answer or harmony.

Best way to learn is just do it.
 
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You’ve been confused by his use of words to describe what he’s doing, which are pretty meaningless unless you have decent knowledge of improvisation.

Playing an answering phrase just means fill the gaps (where there are long notes and rests in the melody) in a similar style: not overly complicated harmonically and not too busy - similar.

Unlike a lot of later jazz (Bebop etc) N’Orleans jazz is very diatonic - it doesn’t step out of or around key centres and the movement is often arpeggiated or pentatonic in movement.

The sound/tone and vibrato are as much a part of this style as the impro, and probably the best place to start as it’s a tangible thing.

I learned to improvise by transcribing whole clarinet parts in tunes and learning to play them exactly. Then I tried a few things of my own and after several thousand wrong notes and screw ups you start to get a feel for it :sax: 😉
 
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Thank you for the wise advice. Same can be said of pretty much every style: ragtime, klezmer, blues, etc, where famous players learned, copied, and played over and over. That does not mean there is no pattern to be explained. Please forgive my curiosity, not to be mistaken for plain ignorance that one needs to listen, practice and jam. That's a given.

If we like to drive and look under the hood to understand how things are put together, what the clarinet player from the Lincoln Center Jazz Academy says makes a lot of sense. That's why there are teachers. Someone wise said that what we understand well, we can explain clearly, and words come easily (reverse is probably true: until you can't explain it clearly, you probably don't fully understand it).

Dexdex mentioned Johnny Dodds. For those interested, there is an interesting paper from the Louisiana University which is an entry point in Johhny Dodds' style, with transcriptions. See p. 50 and following :
The solo style of jazz clarinetist Johnny Dodds

She explains how he complements the melody with arpeggios, neighbor notes, harmonic anticipations, escape tones, etc., in New Orleans style, with certain chord types and the use of blues.

Someone kindly pointed out to me Peter and Will Anderson's transcriptions of the parts of Sidney Bechet, Johnny Dodds, Omer Simeon, Barney Bigard, Louis Armstrong, and others, available here. Until a teacher has more explanations, that gives a lot to practice.
 
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So if you know enough about music analysis to mention Neighbour Notes, you’ll be able to hear what is going on yourself.
It’s not a math formula, I’m not interested in reading an academic paper on it. Study those that played it.
Louis Armstrong said something like:

First I plays the melody, then I routines the melody, then I routines the routines.

Immerse yourself in the players and the music, there is no short cut.
 
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Sounds sampled and isolated by musician and musicologist Lloyd Miller: New Orleans Jazz and how to play it. He only starts focusing on New Orleans after the 12th minute, starting with clarinetist Alphonse Picou, who played with King Oliver:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXFc4k2qqiU


Study those that played it. Immerse yourself in the players and the music, there is no short cut.
Perhaps there was a misunderstanding, but this topic is indeed to study the players and immerse in their music, knowing that study is more of a journey than a shortcut, especially for this beginner. Better if someone helps point the right direction.

Also, it's Patricia A. Martin, the Louisiana University researcher, who mentions neighbor notes. I know it was probably not intended, but that last post felt a little like an attempt to shame someone for reading a paper. 🙂
 
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Skimming through the article on Dodds, it has some ridiculous comments:

On Dodds big sound (paraphrasing) - it took so much air that this limited his ability to play fast.

And also the silly folklore that accompanied many a musician: he played reeds so hard that only Bechet could play them… frankly, who cares. It’s not that relevant. Like the article.
 
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As I started on clarinet in my teens, my entry into jazz improvisation were Louis Armstrong and his Hot Five. My Dad’s favorites. Those sessions are THE jazz academy par excellence for that genre.
Just copy what Dodds does during the head, his solo and the collective impro at the end of any of those pieces.
Omer Simeon can be heard in Jelly Roll Morton’s band, another great name of the era.
Listen and copy those guys, including the articulation. This will get you a good way into it.
 
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Sounds sampled and isolated by musician and musicologist Lloyd Miller: New Orleans Jazz and how to play it. He only starts focusing on New Orleans after the 12th minute, starting with clarinetist Alphonse Picou, who played with King Oliver:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXFc4k2qqiU



Perhaps there was a misunderstanding, but this topic is indeed to study the players and immerse in their music, knowing that study is more of a long journey than a shortcut, especially for this beginner.
If you asked the musicians of the time about their style and how to replicate it, without exception they would tell you to just listen, and play - as Colin said. The article on Dodds is awful, in my opinion, and not written by a clarinet player, hence some of the naive comments.
 
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Sounds sampled and isolated by musician and musicologist Lloyd Miller: New Orleans Jazz and how to play it. He only starts focusing on New Orleans after the 12th minute, starting with clarinetist Alphonse Picou, who played with King Oliver:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXFc4k2qqiU



Perhaps there was a misunderstanding, but this topic is indeed to study the players and immerse in their music, knowing that study is more of a journey than a shortcut, especially for this beginner. Better if someone helps point the right direction.

Also, it's Patricia A. Martin, the Louisiana University researcher, who mentions neighbor notes. I know it was probably not intended, but that last post felt a little like an attempt to shame someone for reading a paper. 🙂
Having done a jazz degree at Leeds College of Music I’m familiar with an academic dissection of musical performance. In my opinion the theoretical knowledge helps and reinforces the practical study, but has far less value on its own.
This isn’t Bebop with b9 - #9 - b9 etc, or tritone substitute, or Coltrane superimposed harmony or Bill Evans. It doesn’t really need a lot of thought, it’s all there in the listening. Forget the people who talk about it, or whistle it, get in and play along - comparing what you do to the guys you wish to emulate.
 
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Similar threads... or are they? Maybe not but they could be worth reading anyway 😀

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