Higher notes on bari

[jeremyjuicewah]

Hi, I am playing a lot more sax now I have moved back into the country, so I am here more often. I have been trying to find answers to bari questions this morning and have found lots of good info, interesting stuff, including I am ashamed to say, that my Bb bari is called so because of its lowest note, not its transposing. I did not know that all baris are Eb, I thought mine was Bb. Well, we wont tell anyone else about that.

What I am after is the answer to my baris sound in the upper octave. Thumb on octave key and most of the power of the creature disappears. Its splendid down low, and not that hard to play right down. G is the trickiest note of all for me just now, but I can get it if I see it coming. With thumb on the octave key the thing sounds strangled. You wonder why you would hump such a big bit of brass around for such a puny sound. I have a cheap Rico 5 mpc which I bought cos it was cheap, no idea what will be best for me so had to start somewhere, and bought too Rico plasticised 2 reeds. Thinking the reed might be closing up I went out and bought a Vandoren 3 yesterday, (8 euros!!!! but all I could get as a single) and it is no better. Pretty well the same up higher, almost impossible for me to sound low down.

Its not as hard to play as I thought it would be, but I didnt have too much trouble going to tenor after 2 years of alto.

I will send it off after the summer for some panel beating and an overhaul, but how does your bari sound up high?
Cheers
Mike

 

[Ivan]

It might be a good idea to listen to some bari players to get an idea of how the upper register sounds

I'm new to bari too and I find the upper register a bit lacking but I've got a sort of a sound in me head that with practice I might be able to achieve

The niggling worry is always that there's a technical problem with the instrument... that's easy for me because I have a tech locally so a once over from him and I can be sure any issues with sound and tone are me. But if a tech isn't to hand, using the principle that a bad workman etc... it's probably best to worry less about the hardware and concentrate more on practice

Whether changing mouthpiece is a good idea I can't say

 

[Colin the Bear]

I've used a selmer S80 on Bari for ever. Monster sound right through the range. I've tried the rico on other saxophones and been underwhelmed. It's ok as a cheap get you going piece but lacks something. It may also just be a perception thing with the upper range. After all that whooomf down low the top feels different. Lighter. Try recording yourself and monitor the volume levels. It might be a tuning issue too. Use the tuner up top and see if you're pushing too hard and strangling the notes.

A Bari pitched in Bb would be.................a Bass.

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

Yes, its def a bit of a feel thing re pushing, but the telling thing is that as soon as I put the bari down yesterday, I picked up my tenor and actually winced at the volume. It took me right by surprise. I will persevere with this not least because I know there was nothing wrong with it when I bought it, the seller would have said so. Also there is the video in yard sale, but Andy is playing it quite softly so its hard to tell what its potential is. I will not be changing mpc yet awhile, its too soon for me to know whats what, and I may iron out the sound, but its enough to make you know that it, or me, is not quite right.

 

[Jeanette]

Yes, its def a bit of a feel thing re pushing, but the telling thing is that as soon as I put the bari down yesterday, I picked up my tenor and actually winced at the volume. It took me right by surprise. I will persevere with this not least because I know there was nothing wrong with it when I bought it, the seller would have said so. Also there is the video in yard sale, but Andy is playing it quite softly so its hard to tell what its potential is. I will not be changing mpc yet awhile, its too soon for me to know whats what, and I may iron out the sound, but its enough to make you know that it, or me, is not quite right.

There could have been some damage in transit I suppose that is affecting it.

Jx

 

[thomsax]

I play baritone for the low tones, not the high tones! And my bari is a The Martin and they are not known for having the best upper register. My friend is blowing a Yanagisawa stencil (low A) and it's a better sax when it comes to intonation and playablity on the high tones. But few saxes beats my Martin when it comes to the low tones. I use my baritone in hornsection in blues-, R&B-, soul, rockmusic but I try to play a solo as well.

I practise long tones in various volume. I often play in concert G, A and E (bari; E, F#, C#) so I did long tones in these keys to get used to the keys and fingerings as well.

Try differnt mouthpieces. If you want to try my old Dukoff D chamber I can send it to you. Or you fly up to Sweden and have a Rocksax workshop as well in october/november. A loud and piercing mouthpice. A # 9 open up to something like a #10. The baffle is taken down a little to get less stuffy low tones. On the other side the high notes are hard to control. At least for me.

Good luck with your bari and Keep On Honkin'!

 

[MandyH]

I don't have too many problems getting reasonable vine out of my Bari in the upper register. I have to be careful hoe I pitch pal E and F etc as sometimes it shoots up a harmonic or something. Otherwise, I can blow away to my hearts content, with good volume.
I have a Selmer S80 D on my Bari and Rico Royal 2.5 reeds.
It could be damage, maybe in need of a service, a little leak? Or your embouchure - think that you are about to sing deep notes, open up your throat and play from your diaphragm. Think "aawww" not "eeee" as you play.

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

HI all. Snuck home for siesta and had a session with the bari. I remember when it first arrived I had no mpc so I tried it with a tenor mpc. I couldnt get low but the high notes were fine. So I tried that today and was quite pleased. Put the Rico bari mpc back on and wasnt as disappointed as yesterday. Its a feel and blowing thing, air pressure and embouchure, but I think another mpc reed set up will fix it but it can wait till I have more experience.

Thomas, your offer is very kind but I will wait and see how I progress in general. My Rico mpc cost 26 quid new so I cant expect too much. I didnt want to jump in with 250 quid and find I had the wrong one.

The set up at present is not scaring the rats but I think there's hope there. I will keep at it.

High notes, well, I can see a problem coming here. I will have to have more control as the intonation, the way I played this afternoon, was painfull. Nemmind, I think its early days.

Thomas, I will get on with what I have and maybe I can get back to you when the time is right for me to move up a bit. It would be a big help to try a good mpc. I have probably 6 or 7 hundred pounds worth of tenor mpcs that I dont really need and a good few hundred in alto. Could do without the same expense for bari. If money was no object I would try the V16. In fact in a few months I prolly will. I know what I am like.
Cheers all
Mike

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

By the way Thomas, what is happening in Sweden later in the year. One of my sons goes to Sweden a lot, am I missing something good here?

 

[Colin the Bear]

I was pleasantly surprised with the Rico metalite on Bari. It didn't have the ooomph down low but was bright and loud and quite sweet at the top. They are comparitively cheap and come up on ebay second hand quite often. Just a thought.

I use a Vandoren classic blue 4 with the SelmerS80 C* if that's of any use to you.

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

Feeling a bit dumb. When I thought the top end was much better, its because the octave rise was not happening when I thought it was. So back to square one, I will persevere.

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

Its very dumb. I had the octave key depressed, playing away, thinking it was nice and gutsy, but the octave hadn't risen, I was playing it down without knowing it. I am not used to how the bari sounds yet except when its unmistakeably low down and deep.

 

[kevgermany]

That makes sense. I find the bari easiest to flip octaves on reed alone. As you've found it doesn't do much for the sound.

But there does seem to be a much bigger tonal difference between the registers than with smaller saxes.

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

Have just watched a few vids on YouTube and I think the bari is a bit strangled up higher. Surprised too that so much is played in the mid range. Like tenor, it seems to me to be ignoring a lot of what is really cool about the instrument, though I didnt used to think so till I decided to buy one. Now settling into the thing and of course discovering that that which did not seem too tricky at first, is tricky. I hope its going to be the saving of me on the low notes, its no harder than tenor down low, which is a big surprise to me. I am giving it about 20minutes a day, its what I did when I very first started, saves getting depressed.
Happy weekend everyone, I may swim this afternoon.
Mike

 

[Nick Wyver]

Strangled? I wouldn't have said so.

Of course, I should point out that Mr Cuber is playing a low A baritone and it is therefore completely lacking in power, badly out of tune and has appalling tone (and is not built in the USA). So you need to bear in mind that it would be 100x better if he was playing a Conn.

 

[Nick Wyver]

I've found another from the same year that shows this travesty of a saxophone very nicely.

 

[kernewegor]

I was pleasantly surprised with the Rico metalite on Bari. It didn't have the ooomph down low but was bright and loud and quite sweet at the top. They are comparitively cheap and come up on ebay second hand quite often. Just a thought.

I use a Vandoren classic blue 4 with the SelmerS80 C* if that's of any use to you.

That's interesting. I find that the Metalite M5 does something similar for me on tenor, whereas the Graftonite A5 is the other way around.

A little getting used to it and the oomph is there at the bottom, too, and I find it more flexible and expressive than the Graftonite.

Horn, mp, player - three infinitely variable variables... then there is the reed... (just don't mention ligatures...)

 

[Ivan]

...a low A baritone and it is therefore completely lacking in power, badly out of tune and has appalling tone (and is not built in the USA)....

Dang, dang and thrice dang

I thought I was starting to get some nice notes out of my Low A, non-USA bari but I agree it simply cannot be true

Anyone know a good audiologist?

 

[Colin the Bear]

Get a Weltklang. I can rattle the glasses on the bar at 20 paces with low A. The guy who sits front row when I play, turns his hearing aid off.

 

[jeremyjuicewah]

Does this guy have a great instrument and play it well? Course he does. Do some baris sound strangled in the higher zones? Yes they do.

Mpc etc will have to wait on this till I find out how much of the problem is me.

Cheers all.