Help the Cafe survive! Supporters, ambassadors, champions... what do you think?

[Vetinari]

Just searched face book for Café Saxophone and it came up with Cafe Saxophone which said "Not associated with cafesaxophone website"

There are also many sax related sites on there.

 

[Digger2054]

Is finding the site (taming and the forums) really that hard?

No, search for a saxophone question on Google and either the cafe or the other one appears in the results.

Its not hard to find if you look for it.

Trouble is that takes time and effort, and my experience of people (customers) are they're lazy.

It's easier to post on social media and have people give you the answer/opinion.

 

[mizmar]

It's easier to post on social media and have people give you the answer/opinion

I don't actually think it's laziness, it's just different. "drive-by" questions vs discussion etc. It just helps distinguish the Forum as a different experience to FB etc. The question, in part, is how to exploit that difference.

No, search for a saxophone question on Google and either the cafe or the other one appears in the results.

I was being rhetorical!

 

[Phil]

Its really a catch 22. You need more people to generate more responses in order to attact people. In general people are not very patient. Sometimes there is little activity here...so despite its value people just wander off into the sunset.

 

[saxyjt]

No, search for a saxophone question on Google and either the cafe or the other one appears in the results.

That's because you are already a member and frequent visitor. AI influences the results that you get. How exactly, I do not know but it does. That's a fact.

 

[mizmar]

That's because you are already a member and frequent visitor. AI influences the results that you get. How exactly, I do not know but it does. That's a fact.

Actually, doing vaguely anonymous search for "help saxophone" on Google and via DuckDuck (bing) Taiming the sax is top or close. Same for my default google. No sign of the forum.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Digger2054 and Saxyjt made me wonder about an admin contacting Open AI, Microsoft, or Google about how the forum could work with their LLMs and how this could drive traffic to the Cafe.

Not sure I understand

I will happily make contributions but I think that maybe isn’t enough.

Contributions are gratefully received but with this thread I'm thinking more about the ambassador idea to increase engagement rather than make money

Pete, please spell out the problem as you see it. If allowing adverts is a solution then maybe that’s what you have to do, at least we can put blockers on them.

We already have ads, but not too many and not for members as I got complaints when we did.

Consult a specialist.

Done that. In regard to SEO I am better than many of them who just don't deal with forums or this kind of niche.

Identify what social media is competing. Why?

It's competing because it's a format and network that certain categories like. But seems very shallow in regard to searching archives and categorising things. So the forum format can't really compete without becoming like that - and there seems little point.

AI was a big turn off to me.

Yes well I think it was worth trying, but in the end nah. Human interaction is better

Perhaps just seek out free advertisment from vendors who have websites.

I can't image they would do that unless there is some reciprocal interaction. e.g. You post here and I think maybe that is useful but it's a minority. many vendors won't p[pst on forums as they have had bad experiences.

Id put a little little Spot on on my page as Friends of the Cafe (though Id rather be an ambasador lol) I dont need money to do that. Im not sure I or other vendors would want to make it a link.

Without a link there is less point. Making it a link would actually help your site because Google likes websites that have outgoing links because it all helps an organic WWW. Links should open in a new window if you are apprehensive about people leaving your site. They are best done in a relevant piece of text rather than an ad banner. I'll mention more on SEO later...

NB: you have a link here in your signature. We allow that and we allow anyone to include links in their posts. Once they get to being commercial beyond a signature link then people are invited to open a commercial account (which you did a couple of years back in return for the passaround)

But again monetisation is for a different thread - as we are non-profit it's not as important to me as increasing engagement.

If you dont look for it you probably wont stumble over it.

Yes and no.

Just searched face book for Café Saxophone and it came up with Cafe Saxophone which said "Not associated with cafesaxophone website"

Yes they started that page and used our name. I have tried to get them to remove it or sign it over but no luck yet.

No, search for a saxophone question on Google and either the cafe or the other one appears in the results.

Yes, we have very good presence in Google searches - either TTS or cafe comes up very high after the paid for sponsored listings and the vids.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Same for my default google. No sign of the forum.

Yes, TTS gets a lot more traffic and I have done a considerable amount of SEO (Search Engine Optimisation).

However I think these days 90% of SEO is about having good,well written, and focussed content (along with sites linking back)

A forum is not so easy because of the content being UGC (user generated content). Posts go off topic, titles are often irrelevant, writing is not great (e.g. spelling, paragraphs, grammar). I don't think we can change much of that as I don't expect every post to be written like a thesis. It's just the way it is. But when I have the time I do some editing (aka curation) to help. This may involve changing titles, correcting spelling, etc.,,

However we have quite a few good results

This one is top (thank you Mr Squealer)

Others searches are also good e.g. saxophone low C key etc.

So I don't see SEO as a big problem, we can't compete with all the goofy Youtube videos that Google now puts at the top, but I think the most useful thing is members posting interesting questions or tips/hints etc. as threads.

Trying to stay on topic is useful (but that's a huge ask I know and for some people it spoils the fun).

 

[mizmar]

I like YouTube because at least the Subscribe stream is almost unadulterated.

But to get some push from it, seems to me, the channel needs to be posting new stuff regularly.

I reckon one possibility is a Cafe Sax YouTube channel where members can share stuff. Either asking for uploads or reposting from their own channel or something (assuming the content doesn't fall foul of copyright. A complete TOTM could be on YouTube if the tune is old enough). Link to the site in the description for discussion; and occasional promotion videos.
It could be fun and good advertising.

 

[mizmar]

Youtube is Tamingthesaxophone.

So cute. A link to google+ ... ah, the memories

 

[Digger2054]

The skill/art/act of discussion seems lost in general

I've said on an similar post, the site is full of information, I'm sure there are those who find their way to the site, find a solution and leave with no need to interact.

@Pete Thomas another forum I use, the admin and moderators will edit thread titles & to a lesser extent the content to help with SEO.

The idea of YouTube SOTM/TOTM is good, especially if it shows others the wide range playing ability taking part.

 

[Pete Thomas]

assuming the content doesn't fall foul of copyright. A complete TOTM could be on YouTube if the tune is old enough).

Youtube takes care of copyright. They do 1 of three things

• Nothing
• Remove it
• Monetise it for the rightsholder

Generally it's the third so there would not be any copyright issues for the Cafe. The problem would be a Google/Youtube account for a group of people.

the admin and moderators will edit thread titles & to a lesser extent the content to help with SEO.

Yes I do that, although it can offend people when you change what they wrote.

See here:

Clarifying your rights on the forum: Why we might edit/delete/move posts

There have been some queries about our policy on the content. Originally back in 2016 our rules about this were somewhat legalese. The original wording was from some default forum rules as used by a lot of forums. We then changed them to be more plain English and to make it more obvious what it...

cafesaxophone.com

 

[Pete Thomas]

So cute. A link to google+ ... ah, the memories

Gone now!

 

[Phil]

I guess you are right…I know nothing about seo
If people are gonna leave they are gonna leave. I could probably do a link somewhere…not that I really know how!

 

[mizmar]

The problem would be a Google/Youtube account for a group of people.

Maybe. I wasn't / wouldn't considering a channel that lots of people can post to... could become messy. Maybe a little work, for a volunteer or two, to (re)post material.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Or a little work, maybe for a volunteer or two, to (re)post material.

Yes that could work. You've got yourself a job!

 

[PigSquealer]

Yes, TTS gets a lot more traffic and I have done a considerable amount of SEO (Search Engine Optimisation).

However I think these days 90% of SEO is about have good well written focussed content (along with sites linking back)

A forum is not so easy because of the content being UGC (user generated content). Posts go off topic, titles are often irrelevant, writing is not great (e.g. spelling, paragraphs, grammar). I don't think we can change much of that as I don't expect every post to be written like a thesis. It's just the way it is. But when I have the time I do some editing aka curation to help. This may involve changing titles, correcting spelling.

However we have quite a few good results

This one is top (thank you Mr Squealer)

View attachment 23968

Others searches are also good e.g. saxophone low C key etc.

So I don't see SEO as a big problem, we can't compete with all the goofy Youtube videos that Google now puts at the top, but I think the most useful thing is members posting interesting questions or tips/hints etc. as threads.

Trying to stay on topic is useful (but that's a huge ask I know and for some people it spoils the fun).

Yes I agree some subjects get a lot of traffic. For instance the repair section very few exceed 1000 views. Even fewer over 10,000.
This is now on page 6

It’s the third hit after four YT videos

From page six to page one.

Young people go to top hit. Your SEO is working.

it’s a matter of finding out how many click on a given subject and the duration of their stay. Do viewers continue on exploring?

I don’t know anyone sub 30 that actively engages on Facebook. Would be interesting to know the statistical age group demographics. I’m guessing north of 55 ?

 

[PigSquealer]

FWIW I joined a local Dixieland jazz club about a year ago. The age group is 65 and up. Many are in their late 70s. There has been less than eight sub 25 year olds attending. The club is dying literally.
The club has been in existence for more than 60 years.

In the last month I’ve been making suggestions on remarketing to attract students & young adults.
Name changed to just the clubs initials. Xxxx presents…..
The live feed on Facebook is like watching a band at a convalescent hospital. That’s not going to change soon.
Instagram account is now getting biweekly posts. Views have tripled.
Nicely edited videos are now being posted on YouTube. Three months ago those videos would’ve had less than a handful of views in weeks. This weeks video already has 90 views. not a phenomenal amount but definitely a increase.

There are companies that specialize in re-branding / re-marketing.

Grammer errors and typos are more accepted by young people. A result of texting and spell check.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Grammer errors and typos are more accepted by young people. A result of texting and spell check.

Yes I think so. But I'm not sure how accepting Google is. Part of my SEO has been looking at search terms. I men real ones that are actually used as opposed to wishful thinking optimisation. For example we'd get a top result for

saxophone embouchure as explained by taming the saxophone

or

saxophone embouchure as explained by cafesaxophone

But nobody searches like that

we need to get top for realistic searches such as just saxophone embouchure

or what is a good saxophone embouchure?

And we are quite close with TTS

But how about that very common spelling as embrasure (which you may have seen quite often on saxontheweb and is actually an old word for a reveal or rebate on a window)?

 

[Hoosierken]

To clarify, what I was talking about with Open AI and others is to allow the bots to crawl the site if they provide credit and a link back to here. The story about Wikipedia, the AI bots have been very reliant on it but now threaten to replace it. I contribute here and to Wikipedia, Snopes, The Guardian and others because I want to keep factual and reliable information freely available. AI is about the change everything, figure out how to have a symbiotic relationship with it or perhaps face obsolescence.